Why I hunt Coyotes

Superbrad said:
Question for you though.... why does everyone applaud the ministry for releasing Elk and turkey and not get on them for not reintroducing cougar?.... You would think that if they wanted to truly balance nature they would try to reintroduce all species... not just the ones they can create hunting opportunities and generate revenue with.....
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I think they are applauded for the turkey and elk because it creates new opportunity for hunters. I wish all game departments were that progressive. Cougars present some obvious human-conflict issues and the logistics of re-establishing a population are not nearly as simple as the other species sited. I think you need to pick your species carefully as the U.S. is learning with the wolf.
 
bearkilr said:
Let me call them up and see if they'll fax it to me. :rolleyes:
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LOL...you threw it out there as a fact...I just thought you might have something to back it up. I'm keenly interested in learning more about these secret cougar introductions but it seems everyone that knows about them really doesn't know much. If there is proof out there, I'd love to see some.
 
Superbrad said:
It's not a case of distrust.... and the logistics of reintroduction really aren't all that difficult.... As far as liability goes, reintroduction of native species wouldn't make the MNR liable if someone's cat or dog dissappeared... bears and coyotes attack pets and people as well... just animals doing what animals do....

Question for you though.... why does everyone applaud the ministry for releasing Elk and turkey and not get on them for not reintroducing cougar?.... You would think that if they wanted to truly balance nature they would try to reintroduce all species... not just the ones they can create hunting opportunities and generate revenue with.....
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So your saying one person that hunts and spends inordinary time outdoors has far more knowledge on how to balance our provinces nature. You must beleive our MNR is just a bunch armchair pilots with no real field knowledge on wildlife. And BTW revenue generated by hunting opportunties is a reason we have a great many animals to hunt.
 
bearkilr said:
I'd find it hard to believe that a breeding population will remain small when the species has been protected for decades and the prey animals are plentiful.
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Cougars are fairly specialized hunters with specific prey and terrain needs. I suspect that's why their numbers were never overly high in the east.
 
canadaman30 said:
So your saying one person that hunts and spends inordinary time outdoors has far more knowledge on how to balance our provinces nature. You must beleive our MNR is just a bunch armchair pilots with no real field knowledge on wildlife. And BTW revenue generated by hunting opportunties is a reason we have a great many animals to hunt.
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Really?... Where did I say that?... I am only responsible for what I say, not for what you decide to understand....

The fact is I don't think MNR are well enough staffed or properly funded to take on projects of this magnitude.....

As late as 2010 - 2011 MNR denied that cougars even existed... now they tell us there is a breeding population of about 550.... How do you go from 0 to 550 in a year?... What do they abse this number on?.... it's a perfect example of why you cannot trust their research....
 
bearkilr said:
I'd find it hard to believe that a breeding population will remain small when the species has been protected for decades and the prey animals are plentiful.
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People so soon forget the size of this province and the amount of land it holds. Most of our provinces land mass has little to no human activity on it. Would it be so hard to beleive small native numbers may exist. Maybe possibly some could be rebounding, is it really that impossible.
 
bearkilr said:
Any proof to back that up?

.......
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Lots...Both the studies out of the Sheep River Sanctuary in Alberta and the National Buffalo Refuge in Montana shed some very interesting light on the subject. It's interesting how they are specialized killers but that specialization may change with age.
 
canadaman30 said:
If you worked for the MNR they'ed have all the answers...........right?
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No.... If I worked for the MNR I'd just be another employee trying to accomplish something while short staffed and with limited resources..... They are no different than any other ministry the government decides to underfund....

Do you work for the MNR?..... lol
 
canadaman30 said:
It should not comes as a shock for what was once native, to still have a small breeding population. As far as a reintroduction it would not happen without public knowledge.
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I would not be surprised in the least to learn that there is a remnant population in the province in the same way It wouldn't shock me to find out that there is still the odd timber rattlesnake hiding in some deep dark obscure corner of it's former provincial range. But, I too think that a reintroduction program for a large predator would be a little too difficult to be done in secret.
 
bearkilr said:
I'd find it hard to believe that a breeding population will remain small when the species has been protected for decades and the prey animals are plentiful.
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Top predators that are not social, and that have large ranges and specialized needs for prey, will never be abundant.

I imagine that cougars would avoid areas with human activity, and seek deep cover.

Trying to establish a population count for a species like that is extremely difficult if not impossible. There may be more of them than known.

OTOH, some individuals in the wild are known to be escapees from private owners. People do that kind of stuff, despite the stupidity of it.

Who knows how many there are, or where they came from.

The idea of a top secret release program in Ontario seems quite far fetched, though.
 
Ol' Smokey said:
Top predators that are not social, and that have large ranges and specialized needs for prey, will never be abundant.

I imagine that cougars would avoid areas with human activity, and seek deep cover.

Trying to establish a population count for a species like that is extremely difficult if not impossible. There may be more of them than known.

OTOH, some individuals in the wild are known to be escapees from private owners. People do that kind of stuff, despite the stupidity of it.

Who knows how many there are, or where they came from.

The idea of a top secret release program in Ontario seems quite far fetched, though.
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Keep in mind that the turkey and elk releases were not announced to the public either and a report of a turkey in your back yard used to get mt with laughter and denial..... I would assume that the releases would not be publicized based on the fact that introduction of a new species such as these coudl invite poaching....
 
Superbrad said:
Keep in mind that the turkey and elk releases were not announced to the public either and a report of a turkey in your back yard used to get mt with laughter and denial..... I would assume that the releases would not be publicized based on the fact that introduction of a new species such as these coudl invite poaching....
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I seem to recall that releases of turkey and elk were well known and often public events. There was also a great deal of fanfare and lead up to the turkey reintroduction.
 
Chuckbuster said:
I seem to recall that releases of turkey and elk were well known and often public events. There was also a great deal of fanfare and lead up to the turkey reintroduction.
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The original turkey releases that took place in eastern ontario were done just east of me in the Vankleek Hill area... They were unannounced and only attended by a few that were fortunate enough to be in the know... Once that population got a foothold and it was clear that they could thrive the program was announced and further more publicized releases took place...

I do agree with all of you, cougar releases could be a complete myth, but for the MNR to say that the Ontario cougar was extinct and then double back and say that there are approximately 550 of them is extremely odd.... that coupled with increased sightings and findings of droppings, hair and tracks makes me raise an eyebrow for sure....
 
Superbrad said:
The original turkey releases that took place in eastern ontario were done just east of me in the Vankleek Hill area... They were unannounced and only attended by a few that were fortunate enough to be in the know... Once that population got a foothold and it was clear that they could thrive the program was announced and further more publicized releases took place...

I do agree with all of you, cougar releases could be a complete myth, but for the MNR to say that the Ontario cougar was extinct and then double back and say that there are approximately 550 of them is extremely odd.... that coupled with increased sightings and findings of droppings, hair and tracks makes me raise an eyebrow for sure....
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The wild turkey reintroduction program was widely known, long worked for and quite public. I wonder if perhaps the low key nature of the release you describe was to allow for the first birds to get a quiet introduction to their new habitat.

I have no idea as to the size of any remnant population of cougars in Ontario (although I have friends who can attest to a sizeable population in the places they regularly spend a few evening leisure hours). So, I'm not sure where the estimate of 550 comes from. I'll have to see if I can find any information.
 
I shoot 'yotes for the $15 bounty and the further $30-50 a buddy gives me, depending on the pelt. It's fun as well, but last two winters have been dang hard to get around in, so much snow!! Hardly makes snowshoeing all day worth it.
 
Well To get 'er back on topic and since the popcorn bowl is empy and I want to get up and see if I can call in a very dark almost black dog I saw yesterday in the morning I need to get some sleep.

Adrian! Good luck with it and keep us posted on how your making out. We are seeing more fox tracks this year than in many years so that's a good thing. Lots of crews around here are running dogs pretty much daily so coyotes are on the skitish side for calling but not imposible. Likely why the fox are making a comback too since there's guys knocking alot of them off. Mostly farmers who have time this time of year. Later !
 
Superbrad said:
The original turkey releases that took place in eastern ontario were done just east of me in the Vankleek Hill area... They were unannounced and only attended by a few that were fortunate enough to be in the know... Once that population got a foothold and it was clear that they could thrive the program was announced and further more publicized releases took place...
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If what you say is true and the first birds were released in eastern Ontario before the program even launched, could you explain why there's a plaque in Norfolk county (southern Ontario) stating that the first turkey reintroduction release occurred there?
 
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