Why is the FAL prohibited?

or you can use google and write "list of prohibited firearms RCMP"... like everyone else does, then it will also include the non firearm prohibs.

But then he wouldn't get my indignant and contemptuous commentary:evil:.

Seriously though, revisiting the written regs to gather info for my more recent post on the topic made me notice something I hadn't noticed previously. Take a look at the wording that prohibits the FAL:

Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 13

SOR/94-741

Registration 29 November, 1994

... declaring certain weapons to be prohibited
weapons and declaring that a person who possesses any such
weapon prior to January 1, 1995 may retain it only if it is registered,
effective January 1, 1995.

2. The following weapons are hereby declared to be prohibited
weapons:

(k) the firearm of the design commonly known as the FN-FAL
(FN-LAR) rifle, and any variant or modified version thereof, including
the FN 308 Model 44, FN-FAL (FN-LAR) Competition Auto, FN-FAL
(FN-LAR) Heavy Barrel 308 Match, FN-FAL (FN-LAR) Paratrooper
308 Match 50-64 and FN 308 Model 50-63;

(v) the firearm of the design commonly known as the Springfield
Armory SAR-48 rifle, and any variant or modified version thereof,
including the SAR-48 Bush, SAR-48 Heavy Barrel, SAR-48 Para and
SAR-48 Model 22;


What is shockingly visible by its omission?

Canada experienced the import of many surplus Australian L1A1s in the late 70s. Then, we received an absolute flood of cheap (like $99 cheap) Indian 1A1s in about 1988. At the time this prohibition order came down dealers across the country were in the midst of a large shipment of British made L1A1s that were just out of war stores, in almost new arsenal refurb condition and selling for the incredible price of about $200. Of course this is Canada, and a number of C1A1 rifles had made it out into the hands of the public.

Together these L1A1, 1A1 and C1A1 rifles were the variants that comprised, I would guess, 90% of the FAL rifles held by Canadian civilians, yet none of these is named in the prohibition order.

It has long been stated by certain folks that this prohibition list was largely formulated by anti-gunners going through the catalogue section of a Guns Digest Annual Edition from around 1990. The models listed above are largely civilian market guns built on semi-auto receivers that would have been available for sale in the USA, and thus been listed in that publication. The surplus FAL models popular in Canada were never available in the USA, and weren't in the Gun Digest catalogues.

All of this musing raises in my mind the question, do you suppose it is possible that at the time the Order in Council was crafted the authors were not even aware the FAL had been produced in and used by the militaries of many Commonwealth nations? Is it possible the authors weren't even aware that the FAL existed as a Canadian variant?
 
Definitely the full auto part. Also seemingly the government distrusts any overly aggressive looking weapons for whatever reasons and due to its extensive service as the "right hand of the west" the fal definitely has a reputation. Shame though I have always wanted to get my hands on one
 
Holly Cr.p Batman, I recognize that building from my cadet years at VACC in the early 70's.

Back then we were given opportunity to shoot C1A1 at the range. Were given instruction on the operation and cleaning of the C1A1. Did parade drill with the C1A1 with bayonets no less.

Actually treated like we were responsible young adults. VACC isn't like that anymore.

M

You said it. When I went to high school in Moncton (many moons ago now), we had a rifle range IN THE SCHOOL and you could take shooting as a course, no less. When in cadets as a kid (air cadets, in my case), they used to make someone the duty cadet at night (for overnight courses like the LAC course) and the duty cadet patrolled with an unloaded Hi-Power and a flashlight. Not anymore...

The world has gone in the wrong direction, IMHO.
 
And to add insult to injury, those of us who, like me, are permitted to own FNs, are not permitted to shoot them anymore. Yes, you can shoot them at a military range, but who has access to that? I don't. But you can still hunt with a BAR .308 for example, go figure.

Even if you have access to a military range and own an FN you can't take them out. This is my situation. The RCMP chitcanned the transport permits in 2006.

My FNs are a cautionary tale about gun control. I bought my first one, a L1A1 in 1983. It was unrestricted. In 1984 it was reclassified as restricted. Like a good citizen I registered it. Somewhere in the mid 90s it was reclassified as prohibited. In 2006 I wasn't even allowed to take it out of my vault.

So the next time they start trying to reclassify firearms from unclassified think about it. Fool me once, shame on you (Lib govt), fool me twice, shame on me. I wish I had just "sold" that FN in 1984 to Mike from Canmore. It's not like it's situation would be much different than it is today. Think about that when they try to reclassify those Norinco M14s, SKSs,CZs, etc.
 
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So in New Zealand , we can still own and buy a l1a1 semi fn-fal/slr , most made by Lithgow arms in aussie , the only thing you need if you want to buy a slr with a separate pistol grip , and bayonet lugs 20 /30 round mags etc etc , is an endorsement on you firearms liscense that you have a "E" category , which means i can own this weapon and go hunting with it if I want , a normal liscense holder can own the same weapon but , must have the pistol grip and the butt stock joined , no bayonet lug , and be reduced to a 7 round magazine , but they also can still take it hunting , same with any semi auto centerfire rifle out there , Ar15 , ak47 , g3 etc etc ..... the worst part is I can legally own a full auto belt fed machine gun of any type , but , cannot legally fire it .... its for collection only .... dammit
 
Yes the FN is a great gun and I have owned a few over the years.

It will be two years on Sunday since I bought an FN FAL from Epps, and then the lab rats in Ottawa wanted to inspect it.

Haven't heard anything from them, I keep calling and sending emails they just say it hasn't been inspected yet and don't know when it will be completed.

Started sending requests to Daniel.Guay@rcmp-grc.gc.ca but no luck so I am sending requests to his boss William.Etter@rcmp-grc.gc.ca.

Two years is absolutely beyond ridiculous.
 
Yes the FN is a great gun and I have owned a few over the years.

It will be two years on Sunday since I bought an FN FAL from Epps, and then the lab rats in Ottawa wanted to inspect it.

Haven't heard anything from them, I keep calling and sending emails they just say it hasn't been inspected yet and don't know when it will be completed.

Started sending requests to Daniel.Guay@rcmp-grc.gc.ca but no luck so I am sending requests to his boss William.Etter@rcmp-grc.gc.ca.

Two years is absolutely beyond ridiculous.

You need to stop sending letters to the RCMP, and start sending them to your MP.
 
Because above and beyond banning all firearms, the true end goal is to get rid of the minds that would own/use one.

That's what they're really after: The culture of independent thought, decision and action. The FAL (much like the AK in a sense) is very much an iconic symbol, more so than it is a functioning piece of metal. And because it is something that is recognized to be special/stand out/ gives guys something to have in common, it must be attacked and snuffed out.

Sure they don't like guns....but really, they don't like you! You think and act for yourself, are therefore not part of the "progressive plan" and therefore need to go.

This post right here nails it.
Statists don't hate guns - they love having 24/7 armed protection for themselves and their families.
For you and I, on the other hand, they not only hate us having guns, but they despise and are appalled that we don't want to be shepherded by their schemes and plans.

It is too easy to convert to full auto. I've seen it done in less the 2 minutes when I was a reservist. I won't go into detail how but, a blindfolded monkey could do it. It's a shame too...it is a beautiful rifle and I would love to own one.

Malum prohibitum vs malum in se.
That aside, I really don't think it was because of this.

They hated the idea that it was called "the right arm of the free world". Arms should never be taken up against any gov't no matter how corrupt they are.

Freedom is indeed terrifying to control freaks like Allan Rock and his criminal gang.

Because someone in the lab needs to validate their 90K a year "job" and that government pension...besides look how scary it is

That is another good point. I notice this in every branch of government. Completely useless people everywhere.

"demand they reevaluate and update the prohibited list"
Careful what you wish for....

I demand they abolish the prohibited list, and liberate all those poor downtrodden and neglected firearms.

My personal favorite...
It must have been "Designed to kill people"

So apparently the thought patterns of gun designers at the time a gun is designed influences how the gun MUST only be used... or not used for that matter.

I wonder if things would be different if the gun designer was thinking of planting corn when he designed it.
I mean seriously... he might have been a farmer... plus it digs a great hole.... try it!

Gun-grabbers actually don't care, and don't even know what gun designers thought. What they mean to say is: I don't know anything about guns except what Hollywood and rappers tell me, so all guns must be designed for murder.

Mikhael Kalashnikov actually said:
"I created a weapon to defend the borders of my motherland. It's not my fault that it's being used where it shouldn't be. The politicians are more to blame for this."

??? Reasons that the FAL family of firearms are prohibited. Liberal males have teeny tiny #####es and the rifle makes them feel inadequate? Liberal females are lesbians and any item that hints of masculinity is to terminated with extreme prejudice!

How anyone can't appreciate the form and function of this firearm is beyond reason.

I'm taking this one to Valhalla when the time comes!


LOL. I agree with that.

I will tell you why.

In the mid 80s, FALs were cheap. And our Bolshevik-occupation government was afraid of common serfs being able to arm themselves cheaply.

The FAL also looked scary and this also was enough to frighten the rabbit people. In fact they wet their knickers. And after much knicker wetting, the writing was on the wall for the FAL.

This is why I have a weakness for scary-looking guns. Lieberals are the scourge of the Earth, and I know if they don't like something, then I'm probably onto something good.

The FN FAL is prohibited because it is "The right arm of the free world". Gun grabbers can't accept freedom or the need to fight to maintain it. They're worried that kind of ideology could be contagious!!

A buddy of mine has two of the Canadian version FN FAL rifles with sequential serial numbers. Right out of the OPP stores when they sold them off. I wish I could own one. They are beautiful rifles.

Well said.

f:P:

JHFC this is frustrating.

The entire point of my post, right above yours, is to refute the crap I have just quoted from you, which is the same crap a couple of others have posted throughout this thread.

On November 29, 1994 the Liberal government passed an Order in Coucil prohibiting dozens of semi-automatic, centrefire rifles. The FN-FAL was included as follows, note that most of these variants listed were manufactured as semi-auto only: the receiver and trigger arrangements you describe in your post do not exist in these models, yet they were banned:

(k) the firearm of the design commonly known as the FN-FAL
(FN-LAR) rifle, and any variant or modified version thereof, including
the FN 308 Model 44, FN-FAL (FN-LAR) Competition Auto, FN-FAL
(FN-LAR) Heavy Barrel 308 Match, FN-FAL (FN-LAR) Paratrooper
308 Match 50-64 and FN 308 Model 50-63;

(v) the firearm of the design commonly known as the Springfield
Armory SAR-48 rifle, and any variant or modified version thereof,
including the SAR-48 Bush, SAR-48 Heavy Barrel, SAR-48 Para and
SAR-48 Model 22; and



Close to one hundred different firearms were banned that day, by the same order. It's ridiculous to think that independant reasons were found for the banning of all these separate models, in the same order, on the same day. Do you really think these bureacratic twits went down the list and went "this one is too easy to make auto; this one has too much cheap ammo available; that one is about to be surplussed by Brazil, making them available in huge quantity: they all have to go." It's silly to even speculate. Clearly to ban all these guns, on one day, with one OIC, they all had something in common, one common element that allowed them all to be lumped together, and this stupid auto conversion thing people keep harping was most emphatically not it.

Not to mention that if, as per your post, the government viewed the FAL as a full auto that was limited to semi it was already prohibited, courtesy legislation passed two years earlier by the Kim Campbell Conservatives. Why waste time prohibiting a gun that was already prohibited?

You are spreading falsehoods. Give your head a shake.

I thought the Lieberals and Communist Tories were firearms experts. I am shocked to hear otherwise.
 
I bought mine in March 1992...it was still NR.

It most certainly was not. I bought my Indian FAL in January 1992, it was restricted then and had been for years before that.

The CSSA-CILA has a draft copy of Gun Control in Canada, 1946-1977 available on their website. The last line of the report, under the year 1977, says "Over the course of the next few years, the government prohibits a variety of
weapons and classifies certain firearms, such as the FN-FAL rifle, as ‘restricted’ firearms." So it happened after 1977. I have heard dates around 1982-84 stated many times, but have never found a reference.

Edit to add: This summary of Canadian gun control was prepared by David Kopel in 1991 for a comparative law journal and contains this statement describing the then-current laws:

Significantly, the Governor in Council of the Federal Cabinet may place any gun or gun accessory it chooses on the restricted or prohibited list.[78] The Governor in Council's decision to restrict a firearm is not subject to judicial review.[79] In 1983, the Council placed the FN-FAL rifle, a large Korean war era semi-automatic from Belgium, on the restricted list even though it was used in only one recorded crime.[80] The placing of formerly unrestricted long guns on the restricted weapons list has aroused considerable resentment among some Canadian gun owners. Since restricted weapons must be individually registered, some gun owners fear that registration of the FN-FAL or other weapons may be a prelude to confiscation.[81]

And here is footnote 80:
[80] Restricted Weapons Order Amendment: S.O.R./83-550(June 24, 1983), C. Gaz. July 13, 1983, at 2674), in Hawley, 39, at 10. The FN-FAL ban may have been motivated by the government's dislike of the particular firearms dealer who was the sole importer of the rifle. The official justification for the restriction of the FN-FAL was that since many nations were replacing their FN-FALs with more modern guns, Canada would be flooded with imports. The Canadian army adopted the fully automatic version of the FN-FAL (the FNC1 and FNC1A1) in the late 1950s, and has only recently started replacing it with the M16. Letter from R. A. Watt, Alberta firearms dealer, to author 1-2 (Mar. 26, 1990) (original on file with author).

So the answer to this question:
Sidebar. When did the FAL go from non-restricted to restricted? I seem to recall it was 1982?

is June 24, 1983.
 
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So the answer to this question: is June 24, 1983.

Thanks for digging that up. I remember I had one and would bring it up to the cottage for plinking, along with evil 20 round mags.

I knew the fun stopped and the world became a safer place when it went restricted in the early 80s, but wasn't sure of the exact date.
 
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