Wild horses in Alberta

[Chopperhead]

Interesting thoughts, there is no proof of that though.

No proof to the contrary either.

But for sake of argument lets say the current horses in Alberta are decendents of escaped logging horses from the late 1800's and early 1900's thats still over a 100yrs the species has been roaming as a free,wild species in Alberta. long enough to have adapated to their soroundings as well as their surrounding adapt to them.

 

[crazy_davey]

No proof to the contrary either.

But for sake of argument lets say the current horses in Alberta are decendents of escaped logging horses from the late 1800's and early 1900's thats still over a 100yrs the species has been roaming as a free,wild species in Alberta. long enough to have adapated to their soroundings as well as their surrounding adapt to them.

Yes, you are right about that.

So I asked earlier, how do you feel about shooting wild pigs that have escaped from places across our country. They have adapated to their suroundings as well. But yet in most places we are allowed to shoot them on sight.

 

[Chopperhead]

Yes, you are right about that.

So I asked earlier, how do you feel about shooting wild pigs that have escaped from places across our country. They have adapated to their suroundings as well. But yet in most places we are allowed to shoot them on sight.

Well Wild Pigs are Pests horses are not, thats the big diffrence there. Pigs destroy the land and habitat of the animals living there.

Don't really know that much about the hog situation in Alberta to comment alot But you only have to look to places like Texas to see what hogs can do to an area in relativly short time if they are left unchecked.

 

[crazy_davey]

From the Alberta SRD webpage....

Alberta’s free-ranging horses are primarily descendants of domestic horses that were used in logging and guiding/outfitting operations west of Sundre in the early 1900’s. When the horses were no longer needed, they were set free. Since then, these horses have produced several generations of offspring and continue to occupy the area around the original operations west of Sundre and Rocky Mountain House. These numbers were added to over the years by escaped and illegally released horses. Early attempts to round up the horses (in the 1920’s) were unsuccessful. Today there continues to be a viable population of free-ranging horses in this area.

And to answer Noel about the capture of wild horses, regulations were written in the early 1990's.

http://www.qp.gov.ab.ca/documents/Regs/1994_059.cfm

 

[crazy_davey]

Well Wild Pigs are Pests horses are not, thats the big diffrence there. Pigs destroy the land and habitat of the animals living there.

Don't really know that much about the hog situation in Alberta to comment alot But you only have to look to places like Texas to see what hogs can do to an area in relativly short time if they are left unchecked.

Well Wild Pigs are Pests horses are not

Your opinion, like I said earlier, lots would not agree. May I ask why you say that? Why are pigs pests and horses not, please explain.

Pigs destroy the land and habitat of the animals living there.

So do horses, I have seen it first hand, unlike yourself.

How many times have you been here and watched the areas that these horses are in? I have seen what type of destruction these horses can do personally as have many others. I can say that I have seen about 100 wild horses if not more. Go back and read Noels posts, ask him what he thinks about being pests or not.

BTW The pig problem is not just in Alberta......

My family has owned horses for about 35 years, so I am deffinately a horse lover. Interesting opinions on the subject anyway. And no I dont think that the wild horses should be shot illegaly, that is bad for all of us.

 

[Chopperhead]

Your opinion, like I said earlier, lots would not agree. May I ask why you say that? Why are pigs pests and horses not, please explain.

How many times have you been here and watched the areas that these horses are in? I have seen what type of destruction these horses can do personally as have many others. I can say that I have seen about 100 wild horses if not more. Go back and read Noels posts, ask him what he thinks about being pests or not.

I will be back

BTW The pig problem is not just in Alberta......

Yes and lots "would" agree.

Why are Hogs pests??

well hogs are predators. they outcompete and even prey upon native animals,
They kill goat kids and deer fawns as well as other animals, livestock and otherwise. They destroy crops and ruin springs and ponds with their mud wallows. Hogs also will attack people. In addition to being aggressive, feral hogs pose a threat to human health from the 13 diseases they are known to carry, including brucellosis, pseudorabies, tuberculosis, bubonic plague, tularemia, anthrax and trichinosis. Feral hogs generally find food by "rooting" they us their snout to plow ground allowing them to reach and extract tubers, roots and other plant material witch tears up roads and fields, These gashes, holes and ruts accelerate erosion, and the uneven ground can causes extensive damage to farm machinery.


In Texas Officials estimate feral hogs annually do $52 million in damage — destroyed crops, busted levees and fences, predation, reduction in forage for livestock and wildlife, etc. and landowners spend some $7 million in repairs to machineery and equipment.

they are extremly hard to get rid off because they are smart, can and will eat anything and repruduce incredibly quickly.

 

[crazy_davey]

Yes and lots "would" agree.

Why are Hogs pests??

well hogs are predators. they outcompete and even prey upon native animals,
They kill goat kids and deer fawns as well as other animals, livestock and otherwise. They destroy crops and ruin springs and ponds with their mud wallows. Hogs also will attack people. In addition to being aggressive, feral hogs pose a threat to human health from the 13 diseases they are known to carry, including brucellosis, pseudorabies, tuberculosis, bubonic plague, tularemia, anthrax and trichinosis. Feral hogs generally find food by "rooting" they us their snout to plow ground allowing them to reach and extract tubers, roots and other plant material witch tears up roads and fields, These gashes, holes and ruts accelerate erosion, and the uneven ground can causes extensive damage to farm machinery.


In Texas Officials estimate feral hogs annually do $52 million in damage — destroyed crops, busted levees and fences, predation, reduction in forage for livestock and wildlife, etc. and landowners spend some $7 million in repairs to machineery and equipment.

So where is the info on wild horses in Alberta and the destuction and habitat loss that they cause?

Info you pulled from the all believable interweb. No first hand experiance, am I right? BTW we are not talking about Texas here, much different environments. I have been to Texas, have you?

OK Chopperhead, let me ask you another question.

So you go to an area that you like to hunt and see a great population of good mule deer, but the area is on a draw system so you decide to put in for the draw. You wait for five years to finally get your draw in that zone. So you head back to the area with the great mule deer population, but you soon find that the mulies have all been pushed out by feral horses.

How would you feel about a situation like that? And please, I dont want to hear interweb crap, but personal experiance and opinion on a situation like that.

 

[Chopperhead]

Info you pulled from the all believable interweb. No first hand experiance, am I right? BTW we are not talking about Texas here, much different environments. I have been to Texas, have you?

OK Chopperhead, let me ask you another question.

So you go to an area that you like to hunt and see a great population of good mule deer, but the area is on a draw system so you decide to put in for the draw. You wait for five years to finally get your draw in that zone. So you head back to the area with the great mule deer population, but you soon find that the mulies have all been pushed out by feral horses.

How would you feel about a situation like that? And please, I dont want to hear interweb crap, but personal experiance and opinion on a situation like that.

yes I took that from the intraweb cause like a said i don't know much about feral pigs other then they rip the #### outa crops and vegitation (witch ive seen) so i had to go look it up. I used Texas as a efrence because it just shows what can happen when they get out of control. they are problems in dozens of other states as well.

(give me a minute to go have a smoke before I finsh this and answer your question )

 

[crazy_davey]

yes I took that from the intraweb cause like a said i don't know much about feral pigs

As you dont know much about feral horses in Alberta as well(other than what you see on the interweb). I have seen it first hand. Dont believe everything you read on the internet, the opinions are very biased, including the ones here

give me a minute to go have a smoke before I finsh this and answer your question

Smoking is bad for you

 

[Chopperhead]

As you dont know much about feral horses in Alberta as well(other than what you see on the interweb). I have seen it first hand. Dont believe everything you read on the internet, the opinions are very biased, including the ones here



Smoking is bad for you

I know enough to know they arn't "pests" and they arn't something to just be shot or traped and chucked in the bush.

and yes opinions are very biased on the internet and anywhere else for that matter. when it comes to wild horses all you have are peoples opions because there arn't really any hard facts to back up any side of the story. are they a wild species? what kind impact do they have?? where do they come from?? what sould be done?? etc etc etc is all just personal opion because there arnt any real studies on the matter.

sure maybe you've seen some damage done by wild horses, that doesnt make them any less a wild species nor does it make them pests. Ive seen damage to farm land and forested areas by moose and other native game animals does that make them pests?? something to be rounded up and eradicated?? no it doesnt

what kind of overall damage to the ecosystem as well as agriculture could the miniscule number of wild horses cause. not much id presume. horses trotting a trail or tearing up a field alittle bit is nothing to call home about considering all the coyotes, wolves and other predators and pest doing 100's of times more damage then a handfull of horses can. Often horses live amongst deer and moose and they get along fine. Like I said, nobody really knows what kind of impact the horses have cause nobody has bothered to find out. Untill that is done it's just a he said she said sorta thing as neither side has any concrete proof to back it up. one might think the horses are a huge problem cause one particular area that they see is damaged well that may not be true everywhere and may be a combination of things.

Like it or not Wild horses are a symbol of the west and envoke those kinds of warm fuzzy mushy feelings when people see them. They are a resouce that could be used to the benifit of both alberta and BC (yes there are Wild horses in BC) through tourism. Lets face it, people like horses, Horses have lived with us as companions for thousands of years and it's hard to simply refer to them as pests or whatever youd like to call them. it would be like going Terrier hunting, it's just not right. what damage the horses do cause (im not saying they dont cause any) could easyly be payed for by tourism dollars from people who want to see the wild horses and be around them etc and that could only happen if the governments of Alberta and BC do something to protect them so they are still around to be seen by people.

 

[crazy_davey]

sure maybe you've seen some damage done by wild horses, that doesnt make them any less a wild species nor does it make them pests

But yet you have no experiance with feral pigs, but you say they are pests. Why are they any less wild than feral horses?

I know enough to know they arn't "pests"

You dont know anything about them other than what you read on the interweb. You have no first hand experiance, just like with feral pigs.

Like it or not Wild horses are a symbol of the west and envoke those kinds of warm fuzzy mushy feelings when people see them

And that about sums up the opinions of most people. People who have never even seen them in the wild areas that they inhabit. But yet they love them cause they are warm and fuzzy

(yes there are Wild horses in BC)

Did you think I knew nothing of this subject before I posted? I know that there are wild horses in BC. I saw horses in the wild since before you were born Chopperhead.

I asked you a question that you never answered, hunting mule deer.

I guess from the start instead of asking for opinions, I should have asked to hear from people with first hand experiance, which it is quite obvious that not many people here have.

I will leave it at that.

 

[Chopperhead]

But yet you have no experiance with feral pigs, but you say they are pests. Why are they any less wild than feral horses?



You dont know anything about them other than what you read on the interweb. You have no first hand experiance, just like with feral pigs.



And that about sums up the opinions of most people. People who have never even seen them in the wild areas that they inhabit.



Did you think I knew nothing of this subject before I posted? I know that there are wild horses in BC. I saw horses in the wild since before you were born Chopperhead.

I asked you a question that you never answered, hunting mule deer.

I guess from the start instead of asking for opinions, I should have asked to hear from people with first hand experiance, which it is quite obvious that not many people have here.

I will leave it at that.

First off i think you need to calm down alittle bit. you started off decent I was having alittle laugh with us going back and forth here but your getting pissed off and I can see it in the tone of that last post.

I never said the pigs weren't wild by the way. and you can't be serious in asking why they are pests as you need only to look at areas were they have made their homes to see what it is they do too areas.

and you do not have to see something to understand it. also merely seeing something does not make you an expert. nor does it negate other peoples opions because they havent.

Ive seen moose and ive seen a fish but that doesn't make me a biologist. just because you've seen the horses doing some damage does not make you an expert on them either. all you have is an opion same as I do. you have no facts no proof same as I do. your opion is just your opinion. your not an expert on animal biology or ecosystem and neither am i so we are only left with opinions mine and yours.

and as far as the mule deer hunting goes, I don't know what id do but i can tell my first thought wouldn't be "lets round up all the horses and exterminate them" .
I could ask you the same question in regards to the horses, lets say you've always wanted to see wild horses and you've been saving up money to take a vaction in Alberta and when you finally get there you find out the Horses are all gone, been rounded up and made into dogfood cause they eat abit to much grass. How would you feel??

 

[crazy_davey]

When you have first hand facts, then please post. I have seen the areas in question, you have not. And yes, having first hand experiance gives me more of a real opinion, I have seen it with my own eyes, you post what you have read on the internet. Who knows more

You remind me of the anti hunting tree huggers, all you know is what you read on the web.

You need to do more interweb research on the subject, read between the lines. Dont believe everything you read, you will end up with an uneducated opinion, like you allready have.

I believe what I see, you believe what you read, there is a huge differance between the two....

 

[Chopperhead]

When you have first hand facts, then please post. I have seen the areas in question, you have not. And yes, having first hand experiance gives me more of a real opinion, I have seen it with my own eyes, you post what you have read on the internet. Who knows more

You remind me of the anti hunting tree huggers, all you know is what you read on the web.

You need to do more interweb research on the subject, read between the lines. Dont believe everything you read, you will end up with an uneducated opinion, like you allready have.

I believe what I see, you believe what you read, there is a huge differance between the two....

Matter of fact I didn't read any of the stuff Im talking about in regards to the Horses anyway.

and it's you who remind of a Liberal in the fact that only your opion could be correct as everyone else is a Moron right?

you need to take a step back and look at the situation at hand. you asked me for my opinion, I gave it to you, you asked me to explain why i felt that way, i did. Never once did I attack you or your opinion i simply stated my own opinion. now all of a sudden your all pissed off cause you don't like what ive said. never once did i attack you and i was very friendly. and out of nowhere you get all agressive I thought we were having a civil conversation of varing opinions, i guess not. I respect your opinion you should have the decency to return that respect. you think the Horses are a nuisance, fine i don't. i think they are something to be protected for everyone to enjoy witch in return brings in countless tourist dollars from people who want to see them.

But your obviously not interested in a civil debate any more so I'll leave it that.

 

[Boomer]

Do the numbers of wild horses in Alberta need to be controlled - probably, just like any wild game population, I am just not interested in participating in the control.

Should feral pigs be controlled? The Manitoba government thinks so, in fact they have made all of Manitoba a wild pig control zone. I would enjoy hog hunting, and for what it's worth I hope the population of wild pigs in Manitoba survives so that hunting them can carried on into the future.

 

[crazy_davey]

Matter of fact I didn't read any of the stuff Im talking about in regards to the Horses anyway.

and it's you who remind of a Liberal in the fact that only your opion could be correct as everyone else is a Moron right?

you need to take a step back and look at the situation at hand. you asked me for my opinion, I gave it to you, you asked me to explain why i felt that way, i did. Never once did I attack you or your opinion i simply stated my own opinion. now all of a sudden your all pissed off cause you don't like what ive said. never once did i attack you and i was very friendly. and out of nowhere you get all agressive I thought we were having a civil conversation of varing opinions, i guess not. I respect your opinion you should have the decency to return that respect. you think the Horses are a nuisance, fine i don't. i think they are something to be protected for everyone to enjoy witch in return brings in countless tourist dollars from people who want to see them.

But your obviously not interested in a civil debate any more so I'll leave it that.

The only Liberal around here is the one who can make statements like yours but have never seen the issue first hand.

Well Wild Pigs are Pests horses are not

But yet not any experiance with either. Though from what you have read on the interweb, you are almost 100 percent sure of this statement.

you think the Horses are a nuisance, fine i don't.

Because I have seen the issue with my own eyes. You have not. But yet, you have never seen a wild horse.

That seems to be the biggest problem with the issue I asked about. Most people give thier opinions basesd on personal feelings instead of actuall fact. Sounds kinda like the Liberals and the issue of gun control.

and it's you who remind of a Liberal in the fact that only your opion could be correct as everyone else is a Moron right?

When you have one ounce of evidence to support your comments I will most deffinately listen.

Just dont tell me things like wild pigs are pests, yet wild horses are not and have absolutely nothing to support your opinion.

Like I said before, I guess from the start instead of asking for opinions, I should have asked to hear from people with first hand experiance, which it is quite obvious that not many people here have.

 

[crazy_davey]

Do the numbers of wild horses in Alberta need to be controlled - probably, just like any wild game population, I am just not interested in participating in the control.

Should feral pigs be controlled? The Manitoba government thinks so, in fact they have made all of Manitoba a wild pig control zone. I would enjoy hog hunting, and for what it's worth I hope the population of wild pigs in Manitoba survives so that hunting them can carried on into the future.

Like I stated earlier, I dont think what was done to the horses was right. The people who committed those crimes were wrong and in the end will make us all look bad.

But there must be a way to control the population, the numbers are on the rise yet nobody seems to want to admit it.

Do the numbers of wild horses in Alberta need to be controlled - probably, just like any wild game population

Exactly!

 

[Lazy Ike]

Here's what little I know about these horses.

1. They sound like a herd of Elk moving, when you're stalking them in low light and fog

2. Unlike Elk, when you walk around a bush 50 yds from them and prepare to sholder your rifle they stampede TOWARDS you!

3. Their groups are small, very inbred and very unhealthy. This is one of the reasons you don't see cowboys bothering to go in and round them up and break them.

4. The herds (around here anyway) are relativly new and represent "domesticated" horses that escaped or got lost or abandoned during the large cattle round ups that occurred up until the late 60's.

These are not your disneyfied equines, they are tough as nails mangy little bastards that are manging to survive and now multiply despite the big cats and wolves whose numbers are also on the rise.

I like horses and even enjoy seeing these ones out where I play. But if they are multiplying and the predators are mulitplying then it stands to reason that another species is suffering and my guess is it's probably Elk and or Mulies that are taking he hit.

 

[canadian hunter312]

the fact is, many people view horses as great majestic creatures because people have them for pets and race them so many are use to seeing them in captivity. this would cause many people to be against wild horse control because they assume that these wild horses are the same as the captive ones.

the same argument occurs when it comes to wild dogs. all the PETA wanna bees start crying if you mention you shot a wild dog because they think all dogs are like rover at home, yet wild dogs are very bad for wildlife.

its simple really, ANY wild animal can have a negative effect on the enviroment if there are too many in a certain area wether its deer, geese, horses, etc. if there is in fact too many horses and they are causing problems, shoot them and donate the meat to shelters or something for the homeless.

i would definatly be up for a wild horse hunt if i lived in an area that needed it...they taste too good to turn it down

for the record, i am not a psycho that wishes to kill all creatures...just those that cause problems or the ones that taste good

 

[Noel]

Here's what little I know about these horses.

1. They sound like a herd of Elk moving, when you're stalking them in low light and fog

2. Unlike Elk, when you walk around a bush 50 yds from them and prepare to sholder your rifle they stampede TOWARDS you!

3. Their groups are small, very inbred and very unhealthy. This is one of the reasons you don't see cowboys bothering to go in and round them up and break them.

4. The herds (around here anyway) are relativly new and represent "domesticated" horses that escaped or got lost or abandoned during the large cattle round ups that occurred up until the late 60's.

These are not your disneyfied equines, they are tough as nails mangy little bastards that are manging to survive and now multiply despite the big cats and wolves whose numbers are also on the rise.

I like horses and even enjoy seeing these ones out where I play. But if they are multiplying and the predators are mulitplying then it stands to reason that another species is suffering and my guess is it's probably Elk and or Mulies that are taking he hit.

Amen, I was wondering if it was only me and my buddies the horses didn't like.
I think the biggest challenge here is finding people who have hunted in the areas that the Ferals inhabit. I would venture a guess there isn't a huge amount of people who see them out there know whether they are being pastured there or if they are wild. Generally the wildies are extremely stocky and long tails, right to the ground.

If you bump into them in the wild, better have a tree to climb!