Will legendary Avro Arrow make Lazarus-like return?

I agree with the spirit but disagree with the practice

maybe 20 or 30 years ago this could have had a slight chance but we really don't have the industry for this and haven't had it for some time

now ........unless everybody wants to "chip in " for a whole new avaition industry ......( BTW I do think our country has the "right stuff" for it )

ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

we have more important things to spend our money on than
defence of our country
industry and;
national pride (everybody just believes what the cbc tells them anyway)
 
luke s said:
maybe I misread but no one said bring it back like it was 50 years ago..... just the shape, then modern everything else......
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stencollector said:
Oh, you mean like have a cockpit, some wings, some rudders, some landing gear and maybe an engine or two? Some form of tail assembly and some blinking lights to complete it? Sounds like almost any fighter craft out there.
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I agree with Sten's list of parts, except for the cockpit.
By the time we get actually take delivery of whatever we eventually choose, UAV will be the current standard.

A few years ago, I was all for the F-35. Then with all the cost overruns and delays, I began to wonder if it was the right approach.

The final deal breaker was when Peter Mackay suggested that the new jets would last 5 decades. :bangHead:
 
Hey...lets bring back Canadair and really spend some money!

Oh...woops....Bombardier...Crown Corporation?....I want a job there counting rivets!

Proud rivets....because you know...we are very proud.
 
I saw the engines destroyed and have never seen a bigger Jet engine in my life. The Orenda Iroquois was something to see. However, I did get a little souvenir.... :)##
 
wheaty said:
I saw the engines destroyed and have never seen a bigger Jet engine in my life. The Orenda Iroquois was something to see. However, I did get a little souvenir.... :)##
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A lot of people got a little souvenir that fatefull day. With all the blueprints, schematics, tools etc etc that were smuggled/stolen out of AV Roe the day everyone was fired and the days following when all the destruction was taking place, I would imagine that there is more than enough original information floating around to be able to recreate the Arrow. And like many, as much as I would love to see an Arrow fly, I doubt it will happen.
 
I'm betting that more than a few of us too young to have experienced the loss of the Avro Arrow program don't know much more about the whole debacle than a distant look in our parents eyes and a made for TV movie.

What I feel about this whole plan is maybe this isn't the boat to jump on but I feel like we as a nation need something to strive for. We don't even have the Canadarm on space shuttles flying our great nations flag anymore... Well I suppose they may still be installed (there's one on the space station no?) but parked on the tarmac doesn't make for great photos.

Give me something to be proud of, something to be a braggart about when I visit foreign countries (I am proud we were able to repeal firearm legislation). I've owned three "foreign" cars assembled in Canada, and my favourite knuckle chewer is a Bombardier. Why can't we have more? I don't want to be slightly different than an American, I want to be Canadian and even more damn proud of it.
 
I remember the day the Arrow was shut down. I was still in school, but that was just about all we lived for: the reports of that INCREDIBLE airplane, the best in the WORLD, making history and new records EVERY damn time it went up. And it was OURS. Hell, the RAF even wanted some!

And then....... BAM!

That a$$hole Eisenhower and his fkkn bullying.

Our bird was GONE.

HISTORY.

And then utterly DESTROYED, just so no-one else could possibly get it.

It was like a baseball bat in the guts.

That was the day I started asking just what the hell was the point in being Canadian, anyway. We can build the best but we can't HAVE the best. It hadn't even flown with the Iroquois; every record it set was with HALF the power it was designed for.

So we bought the Bomarc: world's fastest sandbag. Enough for two small installations. Left 90% of the country with no protection at all. The US declared it obsolescent the week after.

So I joined the Militia anyway and got to drive a tank that was built when I was 4 months old and shoot off ammunition that was a year older than I was.

THAT's Canadian.

I still can't watch that movie without a long, long break in the middle.
.
 
Reminds me of a fixed-wing version of the F-14 Tomcat, when the wings are in swept position...

JasonJ said:
I also agree that resurrecting the Arrow is silly. Here's what the Russians are currently working on:

T-50-new.jpg


Beauty is subjective, of course, but IMHO this is the nicest looking fighter since the YF-23. :D

Jason
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JasonJ said:
I also agree that resurrecting the Arrow is silly. Here's what the Russians are currently working on:

T-50-new.jpg



Jason
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Looks like an F-22 and a Flanker had a little tussle in the haystack sans rubbers.

As for the Arrow... Clearly, materials technology, powerplant development, and our understanding of aerodynamics have not changed significantly in the last five decades. Oh... it has? ;)


Baal said:
I've never understood the Avro Arrow worship so many have. Do we really have such an inferiority complex about what we can do as a nation that we have to put a 50 year old untried aircraft on a pedestal and call the greatest aircraft since sliced bread? For all we know it was as fatally flawed a design as the Hawker Defiant or Fairey Battle in actual operational use. Leave it buried.
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It's because like the TSR-2 or the Fairey Rotodyne, it seemingly died on the cusp of service, so it was never able to fail (or succeed) on its own merits.

Sorta like Jack Layton or <insert artist/politician/singer/actor/actress/musician> that died prematurely. *shrug*
 
I'd actually love to see this happen, if it was even possible.

To me that bird was the prettiest flying thing ever.
 
diopter said:
Probably get a better deal on the Euro Fighter from Germany in exchange for training airspace and Leopards happy hunting training grounds.
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I agree. But we would also have to let the Brits, Spanish and the I-ties have some training time too.

Or we could cuddle up to the Russkies and try and get some MiG 29's or Su-35's. No, how about the Swede's and their Griffin's? It would probably fit the best. It is designed to operate in the same climate, from FOB's based on the side of road's, with quick turn around times.
 
smellie said:
I remember the day the Arrow was shut down. I was still in school, but that was just about all we lived for: the reports of that INCREDIBLE airplane, the best in the WORLD, making history and new records EVERY damn time it went up. And it was OURS. Hell, the RAF even wanted some!

And then....... BAM!

That a$$hole Eisenhower and his fkkn bullying.

Our bird was GONE.

HISTORY.

And then utterly DESTROYED, just so no-one else could possibly get it.

It was like a baseball bat in the guts.

That was the day I started asking just what the hell was the point in being Canadian, anyway. We can build the best but we can't HAVE the best. It hadn't even flown with the Iroquois; every record it set was with HALF the power it was designed for.

So we bought the Bomarc: world's fastest sandbag. Enough for two small installations. Left 90% of the country with no protection at all. The US declared it obsolescent the week after.

So I joined the Militia anyway and got to drive a tank that was built when I was 4 months old and shoot off ammunition that was a year older than I was.

THAT's Canadian.

I still can't watch that movie without a long, long break in the middle.
.
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If i'm correct, the Iroquois engine were ready for installation when the Arrow was scrapped:(
Joce
 
ilikeoldguns said:
depends what game you want to play. The arrow is the same sort of aircraft as the Mig-31 series. The F-35 is more akin to an F-100 Super Sabre to use an era-appropriate analogy.

Arrow vs F-35 is like apples and pine cones

I would argue that the KIND of aircraft the arrow was would serve our needs much better than a carrier-optimized multirole aircraft. Speed and ceiling put aircraft in whole other leagues, never mind what range does.

We'd do better developing weapons which can detect and destroy stealth aircraft and selling them to everyone.

But to be realistic; we need to lok at Russian birds, since only Russia has similar REAL defense needs as Canada does
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:agree:
 
highbeam said:
I'm betting that more than a few of us too young to have experienced the loss of the Avro Arrow program don't know much more about the whole debacle than a distant look in our parents eyes and a made for TV movie.

What I feel about this whole plan is maybe this isn't the boat to jump on but I feel like we as a nation need something to strive for. We don't even have the Canadarm on space shuttles flying our great nations flag anymore... Well I suppose they may still be installed (there's one on the space station no?) but parked on the tarmac doesn't make for great photos.

Give me something to be proud of, something to be a braggart about when I visit foreign countries (I am proud we were able to repeal firearm legislation). I've owned three "foreign" cars assembled in Canada, and my favourite knuckle chewer is a Bombardier. Why can't we have more? I don't want to be slightly different than an American, I want to be Canadian and even more damn proud of it.[/QUOTE]:rockOn::agree:
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svt1940 said:
If i'm correct, the Iroquois engine were ready for installation when the Arrow was scrapped:(
Joce
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The Iroquois engines were installed in 206 (and had started taxi trials I believe) at the time the project was cancelled. 206 was also parked outside with four other operational jets, IFRC 201, 202, 204 and 205 at the time everyone was ordered to leave the plant, however in the famous June Callwell photo taken overhead while the planes were being cut up, 206 is not to be seen and in fact I don't think there is a photo of 206 being destroyed...
 
Just an observation I made years ago..wonder if anyone shares my theory..avro arrow..1958...f4 phantom came to be in 1960 twin engine,fast..ahead of its time..coincidence ?were we robbed of our technology ?told to destroy our copys after our govt sold out ?just a theory of mine..(adjusts tinfoil hat)..watch this video and picture the arrow instead of f4 or is it just me ?...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4pMSKWASNE
 
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