80% Lowers are sold as just pieces of metal from Dlask AFAIK it is not a firearm until it is 100% done although you are supposed to notify the CFO once you have the intent to turn it into a firearm. So you could buy it use it as a paper weight for 3 years and then complete it.
Will the AR ever be Non-Restricted, again?
- Thread starter M4-OPERATOR
- Start date
80% Lowers are sold as just pieces of metal from Dlask AFAIK it is not a firearm until it is 100% done although you are supposed to notify the CFO once you have the intent to turn it into a firearm. So you could buy it use it as a paper weight for 3 years and then complete it.
- Location
- Niagara Region, Ontario. For now
Hell Id be happy if they AR arent prohibed let alone non restricted. I think if the registry dissapears you will see a huge push to ban semi autos, and the AR's and Beretta CX4's will be the first targets. They are soooo scary don't you know.
Well with the T97 and those nifty little shotguns now being stolen from their lawful owners by the RCMP/Government, it wouldn't surprise me that they try the same thing with the AR's, CX4 and others. Time to build a big pit I guess.
Yeah and they will still keep the records of the registry even if it is scrapped! But of course the licensing system will be used on us afterwords as well.
Why isn't Harper able to do anything on this again?
- Location
- Niagara Region, Ontario. For now
because he doesnt really want to. He knows the Liberals will take every opportunity to try and get the public to hate him and unfortunately for us most people dont want us to have guns. At least not military style ones. And the Liberal spin would of course be "Harper wants to legalize military assault weapons for civilian use!!!!"
CanadianReich
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- nova scotia
I think the best way to "fight" now is to get all the "hunters" and firearms owners who are divided and "why do you need THAT kind of gun anway" types on our side- the SAME side. Get EVERYONE to join the NFA and CSSA. Its only 30-40 bucks. If everyone who owned a firearm was a NFA and/or CSSA member our political clout would be much greater then now.
I looked for data on google for this, weeks ago, so please (!) correct me where im wrong- and its from memory, and its rounded off
America = 300 million people, about 1/3rd own a firearm (100 million)
NRA = 4 million members (4% of firearm owners)
Canada = 30 million people, about 1/15 (2 million) own a firearm
CSSA + NFA membership = less then 20,000 (1% of firearm owners)
I think this is a BIG problem. We have 1/4th (assuming my data is correct) the per-capita political clout as the USA in terms of lobby group representation of firearm owners
Britains big downfall was that they didnt have any real pro-gun lobby groups like the USA does, so they lost their guns (source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom)
Given that Canada's gun lobby is so much smaller then the USA's I think buffing this area is a must.
If eveyone posted the importance of NFA and CSSA membership in their local hunting forums, at gun clubs, etc etc wed be much better off.
As far as the 1/5th as many firearms owners per capita problem goes, take the kids out to the gun club or hunting- your kids, your neighbors kids, etc. Get them used to the woods and shooting- the next generation seems to be so hooked on video games and TV that our sport could die out entirely!
Well, if DCRA actually wants more members to join, maybe DCRA needs to change and actually become attractive to new members.
"We only practice the Bisley style shooting at this range, and if your rifle is not a service rifle, we don't think you can participate in our shoots" goes really well with new a shooter who just got his PAL, a $200 SKS and a $200 crate of czech 7.62x39 ammo, and is trying to figure out how to hit something.
Guess what? The moment DCRA representative says this, DCRA looses a member. Weird how this works.
P.S. Pssst. Not everyone knows WTF Bisley is, and why they should care about shooting techniques that were obsolete 50 years ago (Especially now, in the era of urban conflicts with combatants hiding behind non-combatants, and most engagements happening within 100 meters). And not everyone knows why knowing how AR-15 platform works and how to operate it is important. If DCRA addresses the above two point in their marketing, it would already be a major step forward as compared to what's going on now.
The best way to prevent our AR's from being taking away it to take all of your friends and family and co-workers shooting. Put a rifle in their hand for fun, or with the care, respect and understanding it deserves, and you will make an allie.
I think you will find an influx towards the AR-15 platform when all the ar .22 cal rifles hit the canadian market - hence their delay. Once this fun shooter is cheaping, in price and ammo, the support will come.
And for those guys who talked about their MP's backing down, make sure you let them know who you are in the community and how man people you can influence. They will only take you seriously when you are polite, direct, and persistant.
Interesting topic, nontheless.
I think you will find an influx towards the AR-15 platform when all the ar .22 cal rifles hit the canadian market - hence their delay. Once this fun shooter is cheaping, in price and ammo, the support will come.
And for those guys who talked about their MP's backing down, make sure you let them know who you are in the community and how man people you can influence. They will only take you seriously when you are polite, direct, and persistant.
Interesting topic, nontheless.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Realistically, buy something like a non-restricted Tavor, FN FS2000 or XCR.
forgive me for the ignorance.... but how are any of those non-restricted?
my main point being that the tavor is probably just as short as a p90 (which to my knowledge is restricted), the XCR is an AR variant (i thought all of those were restricted as well) and the FS2000 is one mean looking rifle and would most likely be restricted as well...
just a thought
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
It's not exclusively about firearm length but rather, barrel length. The Tavor is non-restricted (18.6" barrel), the FN FS2000 is available in a non-restricted version (18.7" barrel), the XCR isn't an AR variant (18.5" barrel). Even the PS90 can be non-restricted with a longer barrel (there are a few who've done this).
These firearms are non-restricted because they do not meet the definition of a restricted firearm.
Your main point is wrong. Comparing one firearm to another, unrelated firearm (Well, both look black and scary and both are bullpup but this is where the similarity ends) is not only wrong, but is a favorite tactic of antis. Are you an anti or just trolling?
I'll explain why you are wrong, but in the future please research the topic before making statements like this, and if you have any questions, do not hesitate calling CFC and asking (ask to speak to firearm technicians in Ottawa, extension 1090, these guys are paid to explain this).
Tavor is available as both restricted and non-restricted by virtue of a barrel length. Since Tavor is not available in non-bullpup configuration it can't be prohibited based on that. Since its receiver is designed for semi-automatic operation only, it can't be prohibited based on that. Since it is longer then 26" it can't be prohibited based on that. Since it's method of operation is not based on any of the restricted or prohibited firearms, it can't be restricted or prohibited based on that.
Tavor exists with barrel length of 18.6" making it non-restricted, and in shorter barrel length for people who enjoy using it at the range only. In a latter case, one can replace the barrel with a longer one, making the firearm non-restricted.
P90 is a fully automatic firearm with short barrel (8" if I recall correctly) that is not available in Canada (or US) to civilian customers, but it's semi-automatic cousin, PS90, is. Looks the same, but only operates in semi-automatic mode and has 16" barrel.
Further, PS90 only meets definition of a restricted firearm on barrel length only. Again, replacing the barrel on a PS90 with a longer barrel will result in a non-restricted firearm. And yes, people do that.
This is where Alex Robinson, owner of Robinson Armaments will start hating you. For years Robarm is trying to prove that XCR is not only based on Stoker 63 design, but is actually better then AR-15, and here you make this statement. Please, do some research before talking.
Once again, the same thought process as for Tavor applies - is there a reason to prohibit XCR? And no, RCMP felt that XCR doesn't meet the definition of a restricted or prohibited firearm, and thus is non-restricted.
Further, the only XCRs officially imported into Canada are available with 18.6" barrels, so there are no restricted XCRs in Canada unless they are grey market caliber conversion kits.
So looks is what you base your decision on? Not on barrel length? Not on action? FS2000 is restricted on barrel length only, not on anything else, and can be re-barreled to no-longer meet definition of a restricted firearms. Certain dealers (Kodiak Outpost for one) do that before selling you the firearm, if you request it, so you receive a non-restricted firearm right from the dealer.
Your thought is unwelcome, since it's wrong and spreads fear, uncertainty and misinformation. In the future, please educate yourself before making blanket statements.
I can see the AR becoming Non-Restricted after it both becomes a "mainstream" hunting rifle in the US, (complete with wooden furniture and factory handguards that don't allow for the installation of the various tacticool doodads so popular with the range-only crowd) AND it's declared obsolete for military use, neither of which are likely to happen for many years.
I do believe that a significant factor in the FN-FAL becoming prohibited has largely to do with them not being used for hunting in any sort of significant numbers, unlike the Garand and M14 types.
In the meantime we stand a MUCH better chance of getting more AK "variants" taken off the prohibited lists based on the increased popularity of Saigas with hunters all over the world.
I do believe that a significant factor in the FN-FAL becoming prohibited has largely to do with them not being used for hunting in any sort of significant numbers, unlike the Garand and M14 types.
In the meantime we stand a MUCH better chance of getting more AK "variants" taken off the prohibited lists based on the increased popularity of Saigas with hunters all over the world.
That, and the fact that militaries of the world were re-arming with 5.56 caliber firearms, and thus there was an expectation of a market being flooded by many many cheap surplus FN FALs.
Problem is that until a firearm becomes cheap, it doesn't end up being widely adopted, including for hunting. Good example is SKS - at $200 - $300 a pop many people have more then one. Were it $1000, alot fewer would be out there.
THAT'S WHY I WAS POSTING TO FIND OUT! there's no need to go all elitist on me because i don't know. I thank you for taking the time to reply to my post and give me the right information, but next time, remember that this is a forum where people are supposed to post and whatnot and that questions like this will pop up from time to time and that it's not you job to get pissed off but to maybe, i don't know........ help?
it's not anybody's fault if they're a noob, it is however square on your shoulders if you be a #### and close off the community to new people who are trying to learn, and thus turn them off to firearms completely.
thanks again for the info.
What they're saying is that instead of posting to find out, you should read to find out. Then you ask if you still can't find an answer. All of the questions you're asking have been answered at length and are easily searchable. Otherwise the forum just fills with people asking the same things over and over again. Make sense?
And that.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Don't take this the wrong way, but if you're going to make an inquiry about certain firearms you (obviously) know little if anything about, pose the question and leave it at that, ie:
Going a step further to infer that the IWI Tavor should be restricted because it's as short as a FN PS90 (which it's not, btw - the PS90 is much shorter) or that the Robinson XCR is an AR variant (which it absolutely, positively is not) and that the FN FS2000 is restricted just based on appearance, well... expect to get a little singed. That or don your asbestos suit...
I dislike people who say "You should have read first" The internet is freaking massive, and while the information you are looking for is likely there, it is 10 times faster just to ask then to read and read, and also lets others who probably missed it read up and input new info.
