Win 1897- a few ?'s

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A friend of mine is cleaning out his gun room and has decided to part with a few pieces that, as he says, will probably never see the light of day while he has them. One of them is a Win 1897 in 12g, which I believe was made in 1912 (according to the winchester site- serial # 4947XX). It's an 'E' series. Never had steel fired out of it.

Any way, can some one give me a price estimate that he might be able to list it for?

win1.jpg


thanks,

RC
 
Not enough pictures to properly assess the condition, but it looks to be in average condition for one of it's age.

Assuming it has no deep scratches, dings, or cracks in the wood and dents in the metal, I would ask whatever I felt I needed to in order to get $400 net for it.

In other words, $400 + shipping or $425 shipped.
 
Thanks on that!

No major blemishes and the metal looks good (ding -wise). I don't think he has the original butt plate as this shotgun was a hand-me-down.

Couple more pic's:

win2.jpg


win3.jpg


RC
 
With the extra images, I can see that the wood has been refinished and rather poorly. Still not having examined the gun personally, I'd revise my estimate to $300 net.
 
Thanks,

Just finished asking him where he got it from and he said he bought it at a garage sale for $50 about 20 years ago (not a hand down).

How long has it been since any one saw a firearm at a garage sale? lol

RC
 
Here's my take on that particular piece:

The metal looks good. Bluing is worn, but not inappropriately so for the date of manufacture - pretty typical, really.

If it's true that there are no cracks in the wood, the dings that are present would not be difficult to lift and the stocks could be nicely restored without major expense (assuming you have the skill to do this yourself and not have to pay for it - you, in this case, meaning the buyer). The discoloration in the wood at the wrist is due to oil seeping into the wood during storage. This is not a huge issue, as most 1897's of this age and in this general condition are this way. (Note: More serious oil absorption IS a problem in that it weakens the stock.) Original 1897 butt plates are not rare. And, in a pinch, after market replicas are cheap and easily available.

This one is a take-down version and, as such, may be a bit loose where the barrel/magasine assembly meets the receiver. If this is the case, it can be tightened up good as new without the need for parts IN MOST CASES. In the odd case where all of the adjustment has already been taken up, parts to fix it would cost $30 or less (again, plus labour if you can't do it yourself).

[Side note: The adjustment capacity that is designed into this most fiendishly clever of John Browning designs is sufficient for the needs of the average hunter for 100 years. There are 5 more levels of adjustment possible with available sleeves, each with slightly greater offset to the threads. Theoretically, an 1897 should last around 600 years before the built-in adjustment is maxed out!! Then, you'd have to re-thread the receiver and build over sized sleeves.]

These shotguns are TOUGH. You're looking at one that is getting close to 100 years old. I'd be willing to bet the action is nice and smooth. The only reason it isn't worth $1500 is that so many of them survived this long and are in no danger of falling apart for years to come.

At $300, it could be brought into the condition I originally thought it was in, and still fall in the $400 range. But, if someone buys it that doesn't care that much about looks, they can shoot it as is.
 
It would be a good project for restoration and based on that anywhere in that $250.00 - $300.00 range. Strightshooter has it all covered.

That is one ugly recoil pad installation attempt.
 
They are also wonderful guns to carry and shoot. They feel much more slender than your typical pumpgun, to me anyway.

And when you pump it, there's steel forgings jumping out from all over that gun!
 
We sometimes have them for sale in the shop in that condition and they usually have about a $250 price tag on them. They are one of the few pumps that are allowed in Cowboy Action shooting or we wouldn't get that for them.
 
I have a trenchgun version that I paid 780.00 for (extra for the bayonet).
I have a police/riot model I paid 600.00 for.
And, I have a plain ordinary 12 ga break down field grade that I paid 650.00 for (in excellent+ condition).
I also have a 16 ga field and several 12 ga field '97's that I paid anywhere from 'not one cent' to 175.00 for.

This collection of 1897's was purchased over a period of 35 years. They were all purchased in Canada (In BC, Alta, Sask, and Quebec). All of the higher priced ones were purchased in the last 2 years. I'm under the delusion that I have a pretty good feel for the market value of these guns and what constitutes the criteria under which they command greater or lesser prices.

Ben, I don't know where you are located but, if you can't sell an 1897 for more than 250.00, they are either beaters or your customers are certainly leaving happy.

To say that, without cowboy action shooters, there would be no market for these guns is simply false. I don't shoot CAS. But, I hunt with them. I fix and refinish them. I collect trench guns and riot/police guns. I used to shoot trap with an 1897. As I see it, the market for these guns includes:

  • Cowboy action shooters
  • Vintage arms collectors
  • Winchester collectors
  • Militaria collectors
  • LEO collectors
  • Hunters
  • Clay sports enthusiasts (Black diamond trap model was one of the first dedicated trap guns ever sold)
  • Amateur gunsmiths
  • Self defense applications, including bear defense, etc

I'm not surprised to hear you voice what is a common misconception. But, it is a generalization and not the reality. I'm happy this misconception exists, because it keeps the average buyer away from the truly valuable pieces. The nice thing about 1897's is that they're so reliable that even those that I would class as "beaters" can take the punishment of CAS shooting or anything else you may choose to throw at them. Because of this, even purchasers of those in poor condition get their money's worth and more.

Prices on this make/model have been appreciating rapidly in recent years. As more of them get sold to CAS shooters who chop the barrels, they will only go higher.
 
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Maybe a regional thing as most buyers here
are looking for a cheap hunting gun, esp. 3" mag. and steel shot compatible. They sit on the shelf quite awhile.
 
I would also like to know your shop name and a web page it you sell used guns and have these oldies but goodies sitting around. pm would be fine.
 
My Dad had a '97 that was handed down to me and in the thirty years that we used it that I'm aware of, I only replaced one part, an extractor. When I reluctantly put it away and bought an 870, I had a hard time getting used to the 'chunky' feel of a less streamlined shotgun. I would say the old 97 has been the most used and adored gun I have ever owned (and I've owned hundreds of guns). Ben.... let me know when those $250 '97s are laying around...:)
 
Arnie's Guns in Prince Albert, we always have a few old shotguns kicking around, I got a mint condition Belgian A-5 for $200.....again, the same thing...most folks want something 3" and steel shot compatible, mine was 2 3/4" and full choke. I reamed it out to light modified, so I could use steel.
 
HOWDY. value ; maybe 250 . But put on a win butt plate . hack off the barrel to 20 inchs , maybe install choke tubes ,function tested in good order , 500 plus .
 
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