I don't recall Winchester ever offering a factory conversion of a Model 12 from 2/3/4" to 3" chambers. The Heavy Duck Gun is a heavier built gun in many respects. The barrel wall is thicker, the bolt is different, as well as the shell carrier, the buttstock has a lead counterweight etc. etc.. I do sort of, but faintly, remember Simmons at one time offering such a conversion but I could be mistaken on that.
Winchester Model 12 Information Thread
- Thread starter tharkhold
- Start date
I don't recall Winchester ever offering a factory conversion of a Model 12 from 2/3/4" to 3" chambers. The Heavy Duck Gun is a heavier built gun in many respects. The barrel wall is thicker, the bolt is different, as well as the shell carrier, the buttstock has a lead counterweight etc. etc.. I do sort of, but faintly, remember Simmons at one time offering such a conversion but I could be mistaken on that.
uhh, what? Haven't you seen my first posts in this thread? The bolts are the same... The only differences that I've seen/found were the heavier stock (i still need to figure out if I can weigh the HD bare receiver without fking up the recoil pad, i think it's glued on
), elongated shell window, and barrel chamber/wall thickness; which is the whole point of this thread.
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uhh, what? Haven't you seen my first posts in this thread? The bolts are the same... The only differences that I've seen/found were the heavier stock (i still need to figure out if I can weigh the HD bare receiver without fking up the recoil pad, i think it's glued on
The Duck Gun weighs 1lb and 10 0z. more than the standard 2 3/4" M12. The Duck Gun bolt is different than the standard 2 3/4" bolt. . The 4 gr difference in the weight should help explain. The part number for the Duck Gun bolt is: 6712A - part number for the 2 3/4" is: 6212. Also, in 1956, Winchester changed the Model 12 from a round face to a square face bolt.
The buttstock on the HD is also shorter. 13 5/8" and changed around 1956 to 13 3/4". The Duck Gun came from the factory with a solid red Winchester recoil patent dated pad (June 6, 1922).
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Agree 100% as well as the the barrel, magazine band, plug stop, action slide, receiver, trigger guard, cartridge stop, carrier, and breech bolt were machined to different dimensions. Also "Duck" guns had a shorter butt stock with a lead weight, with a Winchester recoil pad to name a few.
Cheers
interesting... as I've been able to interchange bolts and triggers in the HD and M12 and the guns cycle snapcaps... I havent fired shots with them like that though.
I wonder, since they are different part numbers, could it be that the HD bolt is made from a stronger alloy than the M12?
I wonder, since they are different part numbers, could it be that the HD bolt is made from a stronger alloy than the M12?
Little update from this weekend's shoot.
I've fired various 3" steel shot (#3/4 in Black cloud, Close Range, Kent, Challenger, federal blue box speed shok i think) from my HD with my 32" Full choke, no issues at all. No scrapes, elongations/heat issues firing these in it.
Yay
It also seems to pattern all these rounds quite good... which was suprising (in a good way).
I've fired various 3" steel shot (#3/4 in Black cloud, Close Range, Kent, Challenger, federal blue box speed shok i think) from my HD with my 32" Full choke, no issues at all. No scrapes, elongations/heat issues firing these in it.
Yay
It also seems to pattern all these rounds quite good... which was suprising (in a good way).
In the book," The Winchester Model 12 by George Madis, he states on page 35 ,"Winchester offered to lengthen any twelve gauge chamber to fire 3 inch shells for an additional charge.For a time this was a frequently requested operation.When converted to 3 inch shells,the shorter lengths could still be fired."
M12shooter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- East St. Paul, mb
I wouldn't fire steel shot through any full fixed choke or choke tube for that matter.
No pics available. But just an inquiry about a Model 12 Trap that I have an opportunity to purchase. I place it between fair and good condition but well used. Can one of you fine gents give just a ballpark figure of its value? Straight stock and solid rib. Nickel steel barrel serial number in the mid 35,000 range. Not a Black Diamond! TIA
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My thoughts - in the fair to good condition that you describe there is little "collector" value to the Model 12 Trap, so value is only slightly more what one would pay for a "using" Model 12.
Assuming fully usable condition, the solid rib and straight stock would still generate lots of lookers at a gun show.
There is no economic way to upgrade a worn Model 12, unless you do all the work yourself, and then it is definitely not a "collector" gun.
Assuming fully usable condition, the solid rib and straight stock would still generate lots of lookers at a gun show.
There is no economic way to upgrade a worn Model 12, unless you do all the work yourself, and then it is definitely not a "collector" gun.
Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
A low mileage M12 Trap in very good condition can bring $1500 so one in fair to good condition might be worth half that. Ones in very good condition are not that hard to find so that really drives the price of ones that aren't down.
250$? That's a very good price, even for a 'garbage' model 12 where you'd need to get a fresh barrel!
good find!
My heavy duck I think was 5 or 600$... and I use it now for ducks instead of my ex beretta a400.
good find!
My heavy duck I think was 5 or 600$... and I use it now for ducks instead of my ex beretta a400.
Ok, but this is from a 'native' 3" receiver/barrel.. not an 'after manufacture' adaptation.
Also curious on what they modified to fit the magnum rounds.. they would have to change the whole receiver and barrel... that's pretty much a whole new gun.. haha
I've read both sides of the story... I'll continue to fire rounds from my full choke nonetheless.
If I do come upon a mod barrel for the 3" shells.. im getting it for sure though
M12shooter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- East St. Paul, mb
Ok, but this is from a 'native' 3" receiver/barrel.. not an 'after manufacture' adaptation.
Also curious on what they modified to fit the magnum rounds.. they would have to change the whole receiver and barrel... that's pretty much a whole new gun.. haha
I've read both sides of the story... I'll continue to fire rounds from my full choke nonetheless.
If I do come upon a mod barrel for the 3" shells.. im getting it for sure though
If your M12 is in fact a HD then there is plenty of metal to allow installation of screw in chokes...or have the fixed full opened up to a light modified which will pattern steel shot very well for most waterfowl situations. Steel shot fired through a full usually patterns tighter than a bulls ass in fly season...but if that's what you're looking for then by all neans go at er....
