Winchester vs Ruger vs Remington

Hey Homer, rifle selection depends a lot on it's purpose. Since you mentioned hunting, IMHO function of the rifle is most important. It's one thing to shoulder a rifle and dry fire it in a store, it's even better if you can touch off a few rounds. If you know anyone who owns the models you're looking at, buy them a couple rounds at a pub in exchange for trying out their rifle. Just do the drinking afterwards! ;) For hunting, most of the time you'll be carrying the rifle so keep in mind how it feels in your hands. For me, fit has never been a problem. I found I've been able to get used to the fit of different guns. So as long as it's a reasonably comfortable fit it's good enough. Just practice shooting in different positions before hunting season.

On a personal note, I've found Remington has gone downhill in quality of finish. My 700 and 870 (short barrel) had burrs in the chamber that caused hard extraction. I know other shooters who have had burrs in their 870 (long barrels) too. :(
 
yeah I know. I am looking for a difficult answer, but just what are some of the benefits to each or weaknessess.

I like Savages, but it seems that many people have scope mounting issues with these. Any insight here would be good.

For the Record I prefer Remington 700s. Having said that I wouldn't hesitate to own a Savage.

FWIW I have only seen 1 Savage with a scope mount issue (rings would not tighten on bases as bases were under size) and it was easily solved by replacing the factory bases with Weaver bases (about a $10.00 fix). This was on a factory 116 package in 300 Win Mag (with the Simmons 8 Point scope).

FWIW the scope has survived several hunting seasons so far. I am truly surprised a $50.00 scope has survived the pounding the 300 Win mag is giving it.

If you want an inexpensive Savage to "feel the waters" as it may, get an Edge. Great reviews so far. And very inexpensive! LeBarons lists them for under $320.00. Worth taking a look.
 
I've owned a Ruger and loved it but it would have been a bit heavy to carry all day. The choice of the weight your willing to bear will depend on the type of hunting your doing. When we used to walk the bush we had 2 lever action rifles we used one in .308 and one in 30-30. I have buddys that sit all day once they get to their spot and just wait but they're shooting long shots with heavy calibers. I have 5 Savage rifles that work very well, myself and another guy here use them to coach an Intro course for shooters and they see all kinds of weather with no prob. they're very accurate and dependable.
One of our students bought a brand new Rem. 700 in 300 win mag. I'll show you the pics of his UNFIRED rifle.

Harrysrusty5.jpg


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This is what Remington offers now in quality, they said ship it to them they MIGHT consider warranty.
This rifle was opened INSIDE the class room and put back away and returned to his car on a rainy day. It never saw direct rain.

M.
 
Another vote for the Ruger. I have my tang safety .30-06 for nearly 30 years. The rings are solid and the bases aren't srewed on, rather an integral part of the receiver. I really don't think you can go wrong with an M77 unless you have some kind of weird body type requiring an out of the ordinary configuration (i.e. dwarf or giant).

As for the accessories Shakky mentions , just what do you need outside of a scope and a sling? I would stay away from the 50mm scopes (too heavy and will require higher rings which need to be ordered separate). A good 3x9 40mm will handle most any hunting situation fairly well. Leave it on 3 power for all your hunting and you only zoom in on the longer range animals, if time permits. The quality of scopes in the lower to mid range has gone up tremendously over the last number of years. Clarity and accuracy can be exceptional without having to sell a kidney. Look for a good non-critical eye relief scope; which means you can see your animal without too much fuss over where you are cheeking the rifle. Most of the Bushnell products fall into this category.

This applies to the average hunter making occasional use of his rifle and is more than adequate for that purpose.
 
This is what Remington offers now in quality, they said ship it to them they MIGHT consider warranty.
This rifle was opened INSIDE the class room and put back away and returned to his car on a rainy day. It never saw direct rain.
Are you saying ALL Remingtons are like that now, or just the one in the pic?

It would be very hard to say why that corrosion is there. Could have been handled somewhere between production and the sale. I know of a certain new 700 rifle that was fired by employees at a gun shop looking for the most accurate and was sold as new. Who knows what happened, but to paint them all with such a blanket statement is ignorant to a lot of other factors that remain unknown.

.
 
Ruger has been mentioned a few times in this thread, and I agree its an accurate and solid rifle, but if your buying used, check to see if the trigger has been replaced or worked on. The one down fall of the older Rugers is the crazy 6-7lb (mine is 7lbs) trigger pull. This is something to keep in mind when your pricing rifles, as I am sure you will end up spending some coin swapping out the trigger or have someone work on it.
 
Ruger has been mentioned a few times in this thread, and I agree its an accurate and solid rifle, but if your buying used, check to see if the trigger has been replaced or worked on. The one down fall of the older Rugers is the crazy 6-7lb (mine is 7lbs) trigger pull. This is something to keep in mind when your pricing rifles, as I am sure you will end up spending some coin swapping out the trigger or have someone work on it.

That is the only real drawback to gettin a RUger rifle, IMHO. The triggers, even the new LC triggers- are heavy. That being said, all the new rifles I've bought int he last 15 years have got trigger jobs of one sort or another- And they include all sorts of makes.

A good gunsmith should be able to fix it for you in short order and not too much $$$. A good trigger is one of the most important aspects of good shooting.
 
I wouldn't buy a Savage.;)

I had a Savage in 22-250 and my son has one of those cheap-o Savages in 30-06. Both rifles shot moa out of the box but man are they UGLY.
IMO, I dont like the bolt shroud design with the bolt handle at the utmost rear of the bolt and almost covering that excuse for a tang safety.
RUGER my friend RUGER
 
Hunted with the Ruger M77 30-06 for 32 years, love it, it is accurate and has stood up to everything. Just this month purchased a Tikka 30-06 to shave off a few pounds of carry weight.
 
I have had both Rugers and Remingtons. Had work done on my Ruger and its my go to gun for varmints. My friend has a Savage.

They are all good guns and capable of good hunting accuracy. Having said that all are capable of having to be tweaked to wring the best out of them.

Go handle them and buy whichever you like best.The rings on Rugers are a nice freebie.
 
If your looking for a wood stock gun. A couple I'd sure consider in that pack would be a Rem. 700 BDL or Rem. 700 CDL or the Savage American Classic. All nice guns that will probobly out last yourself.
 
I own two Rem. 700s, a 25.06 Varmint BDL for about 20 some years, and a 300 WM Sendero for about 15.

Both are as accurate as one might hope for, have put up numerous 1/2" three shot groups with factory ammo. Have taken enough mulies and whitetails with the 25.06 (a terrific deer caliber I'd recommend every time!)

What I don't like about Remington 700s, enough so that I probably wouldn't buy another, as I think for the same bucks...or less...there are better options to be had.

Triggers: Read too many tales of discharges on flipping safety off. Had it happen to my 25.06 once, albeit after I let a wannabe smith set it up for me. Thought he was the problem until I read of other experiences. I replaced the unit with a Timney immediately. Remington triggers predating the current new models, IMHO, should never, ever be adjusted by anyone but a qualified smith. Better yet, they should just be replaced outright with a Timney, Shilen, or similar quality aftermarket. I also have read similar reports on another forum regarding Rem's new trigger, FWIW.

Bottom metal: Cheap, cheap quality, some sort of crappy pot metal. One must be very careful in reassembling after cleaning to make sure the magazine - made of spring steel and split at the back end - sits properly into the bottom plate, or it will bind and put pressure on the action. This can be tricky, and annoying as hell, to get right. Always make sure that the magazine has a tad bit of free movement up and down once the two action screws are tightened. IMHO, Remington's bottom metal and magazine design sucks.

Williams makes a super good quality bottom plate replacement. It also has a deeper recess machined into it for the magazine that makes reassembly much easier.

http://www.williamsfirearms.com/onepiece.html

I recently took the Sendero in for trigger work, to a very, very reputable smith. He wasn't at all happy with the bolt function, finding galling on one lug. Did a headspace check and found it in the "no-go" range...??? This rifle has had, at the most, maybe 200 rounds through it. Had to remove the barrel and completely redo the headspacing, lap in the bolt lugs, and true the action.

I don't particularly like to knock a N. American manufacturer, but IMHO I think Remington has some catching up to do in the quality and/or design functionality departments with their 700 series rifles...perhaps instead of spending their time and money on buying up competitors. I am reminded of the recent GM saga, and cruising on their reputation as Number One, if you get my drift...

On the other hand...

Both the Tikka T3, which I've had some limited experience with, and the Sako A7 that I'm just learning about, especially for the coin involved, are, IMHO, excellent examples of form, function, and fit in a modern rifle. I mounted a scope and did a sight in on my son-in-law's T3 300 WSM. Trigger was perfect right out of the box. The action was the smoothest I've ever come across. And it shot sub MOA groups (Fusion ammo) right off the get-go! I'm reading lots of reports that the Sako A7 is even better.

No experience with Winchester 70s.

My only experience with a Ruger is my 77/22 stainless (with paddle stock). Trigger had been perfectly reworked before I acquired it at a gun swap some years back. It's a helluva sweet little rifle to handle, although not remarkably accurate at the range. I've also read that older Rugers were a bit of hit and miss on accuracy due to quality of barrels being supplied. I believe they make their own now, and have improved in consistency of quality. Ruger scope mounting is an excellent bonus.

A side note on Ruger M77s, which owners, or anyone looking at buying an older model, should be aware of: There's a recall on early units that's particularly important for safety reasons...

http://www.ruger.com/pdf/m77.pdf

Savage is getting a super reputation for accuracy. I wouldn't underrate these, either. Becoming a very innovative company.

Lastly, every time I handle a CZ rifle or shotgun, I sure am impressed with their fit and finish, again especially for the price tag involved. A stock on a CZ generally ain't the cheapest, barely acceptable chunk of wood they could find to keep costs down. And owners seem to inevitably rave about their accuracy.

Anyway, my two cents, FWIW.

:)
 
I own two Rem. 700s, a 25.06 Varmint BDL for about 20 some years, and a 300 WM Sendero for about 15.

Both are as accurate as one might hope for, have put up numerous 1/2" three shot groups with factory ammo. Have taken enough mulies and whitetails with the 25.06 (a terrific deer caliber I'd recommend every time!)

What I don't like about Remington 700s, enough so that I probably wouldn't buy another, as I think for the same bucks...or less...there are better options to be had.

Triggers: Read too many tales of discharges on flipping safety off. Had it happen to my 25.06 once, albeit after I let a wannabe smith set it up for me. Thought he was the problem until I read of other experiences. I replaced the unit with a Timney immediately. Remington triggers predating the current new models, IMHO, should never, ever be adjusted by anyone but a qualified smith. Better yet, they should just be replaced outright with a Timney, Shilen, or similar quality aftermarket. I also have read similar reports on another forum regarding Rem's new trigger, FWIW.

Bottom metal: Cheap, cheap quality, some sort of crappy pot metal. One must be very careful in reassembling after cleaning to make sure the magazine - made of spring steel and split at the back end - sits properly into the bottom plate, or it will bind and put pressure on the action. This can be tricky, and annoying as hell, to get right. Always make sure that the magazine has a tad bit of free movement up and down once the two action screws are tightened. IMHO, Remington's bottom metal and magazine design sucks.

Williams makes a super good quality bottom plate replacement. It also has a deeper recess machined into it for the magazine that makes reassembly much easier.

http://www.williamsfirearms.com/onepiece.html

I recently took the Sendero in for trigger work, to a very, very reputable smith. He wasn't at all happy with the bolt function, finding galling on one lug. Did a headspace check and found it in the "no-go" range...??? This rifle has had, at the most, maybe 200 rounds through it. Had to remove the barrel and completely redo the headspacing, lap in the bolt lugs, and true the action.

I don't particularly like to knock a N. American manufacturer, but IMHO I think Remington has some catching up to do in the quality and/or design functionality departments with their 700 series rifles...perhaps instead of spending their time and money on buying up competitors. I am reminded of the recent GM saga, and cruising on their reputation as Number One, if you get my drift...

On the other hand...

Both the Tikka T3, which I've had some limited experience with, and the Sako A7 that I'm just learning about, especially for the coin involved, are, IMHO, excellent examples of form, function, and fit in a modern rifle. I mounted a scope and did a sight in on my son-in-law's T3 300 WSM. Trigger was perfect right out of the box. The action was the smoothest I've ever come across. And it shot sub MOA groups (Fusion ammo) right off the get-go! I'm reading lots of reports that the Sako A7 is even better.

No experience with Winchester 70s.

My only experience with a Ruger is my 77/22 stainless (with paddle stock). Trigger had been perfectly reworked before I acquired it at a gun swap some years back. It's a helluva sweet little rifle to handle, although not remarkably accurate at the range. I've also read that older Rugers were a bit of hit and miss on accuracy due to quality of barrels being supplied. I believe they make their own now, and have improved in consistency of quality. Ruger scope mounting is an excellent bonus.

A side note on Ruger M77s, which owners, or anyone looking at buying an older model, should be aware of: There's a recall on early units that's particularly important for safety reasons...

http://www.ruger.com/pdf/m77.pdf

Savage is getting a super reputation for accuracy. I wouldn't underrate these, either. Becoming a very innovative company.

Lastly, every time I handle a CZ rifle or shotgun, I sure am impressed with their fit and finish, again especially for the price tag involved. A stock on a CZ generally ain't the cheapest, barely acceptable chunk of wood they could find to keep costs down. And owners seem to inevitably rave about their accuracy.

Anyway, my two cents, FWIW.

:)

great read, thanks for your time.

Also good info regarding older rugers!

:cool:
 
I really like CRF rifles. I would go with winchester or ruger and leave the rem alone. But that just me. Also I really like the safeties on the win and ruger.
 
it all depends what you want. IF you want conrtrol round feed go with the ruger or a new model 70. If you go with an older model 70 post 64 untill fairly reciently it will be a push feed like an 700. Im not quite shure how much longer after 64 the model 70 still was control round feed rifle.
 
Remington has indeed suffered some quality control issues...So what.
I have seen epic fails in Ruger, Sako, and Savage...Just to name a few.

Despite all that have you ever wondered why guys that handle rifles all day every day choose Remington?
Todbartel doesn't shoot Tika or Savage does he?
Guntech has near 50 years of experience in the firearms industry and he shoots Remington? Ask Dennis what he thinks of some of the guns in question.
You might not like what you hear, but you will get the truth.
 
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