Winchester vs Ruger vs Remington

[burnt_servo]

I am in the market for a new rifle, I know I want bolt aciotn, and that I want a wood stock. I want a 30-06. I may look to used as well. What I want to know from all of the experts (I am inexperienced at rifles) is what are the pros or cons regarding the following:

Winchester 70

Ruger 77

Remington 700

As I said there are some options on EE as well as a few private sales I know of, what can I expect from each rifle.

tradex has some husqvarna's in 30-06 that i would take a serious look at .

i would also look at kimber and browning .

the bigest thing is to get your hands on the rifle , smell it , taste it , lick it ..... you know what i mean ... try to get a good feeling for it and see if it suites you .
find a rfile that feels good first , then look at the price second.
it the gun is a tad pricey , you can always make more money later for a rifle that fits you perfectly .

 

[homer_]

tradex has some husqvarna's in 30-06 that i would take a serious look at .

i would also look at kimber and browning .

the bigest thing is to get your hands on the rifle , smell it , taste it , lick it ..... you know what i mean ... try to get a good feeling for it and see if it suites you .
find a rfile that feels good first , then look at the price second.
it the gun is a tad pricey , you can always make more money later for a rifle that fits you perfectly .

the thing with tradex's husqvarna's is how do I tell the top rifles to the lesser ones, what am I looking for? Also will basic bases fit on these rifles, or do I need the rifle to be drilled by a gunsmith?

Do they all have the mauser action?

 

[Toomanyguns]

I'd also favour a Tradex Husqvarna. Bed it, scope it with a VX2 and beat on it. You'd be way further ahead.

There is great sensibility in such a decision.

 

[Ardent]

I just don't like Remingtons, push feed, soldered/brazed together, multi-piece bolt, and made for cheap production over all other attributes. It's the Ford Taurus of bolt actions. Works, but there are much, much better choices for hunting. The bolt handles also have a nasty habit of breaking their solder on extremely cold days and falling off the gun, and the extractor is a joke. I've built long range rigs on them, and they are very easy to work on, and are very accurate. Fine for a bench gun, but I don't like them for the field.

Both the Ruger and Winchester M70 Classic (push feed) are much better field firearms, and higher quality. The Ruger has the best floorplate system in the field with the hidden release, and the Winchester the best safety. Ruger's just a fraction behind with regards to the safety, as they have a 3 position wing safety too, but it's not quite as nice as Winchester's (the original). The Ruger scope mounting system is better than Winchester's, ever so slightly, especially since the rings are included no charge. Either will serve you extremely well, look at Kimber though too, I just bought one and it's the best finished of the hunting grade guns available, with mine needing no tweaking which isn't the case with Rems, Rugers, and Wins.

 

[dutchhunter]

For mr it would be an older model 77 ruger all the way second would be an older model 700 remmy then a pre 64 win mod 70 but that is me i would stay clear of all the new stuff dutch

 

[Mount Sweetness]

Agree with Dutch, shop for an older used rifle with honest use, don't bother with the new stuff.

 

[Ardent]

Actually, the new Rugers are better guns than their older counterparts, better barrels especially, owned many of both. You also know the cleaning/care history then.

 

[woolly]

I just don't like Remingtons, push feed, soldered/brazed together, multi-piece bolt, and made for cheap production over all other attributes. It's the Ford Taurus of bolt actions. Works, but there are much, much better choices for hunting. The bolt handles also have a nasty habit of breaking their solder on extremely cold days and falling off the gun, and the extractor is a joke.

Please, what are you basing the 700 bolt handle "falling off" statement on? My 700 has never had its bolt fall off, nor have I had any problems witht he extractor. In fact I haven't had any problems with any of the 700s I have owned.

I also question why police departments throughout North America and the US military use Remington 700s if the bolt handles "fall off"?

If Ruger is that much better a rifle why hasn't the Military adopted it? Or police departments? You know the guys whose life may well depend on the rifle functioning?

 

[BC Bigbore]

Out of the three choices I'd pick a Model 70 first, a M77 second and a M700 third. Winchester's trigger, safety and 10 second bolt disassembly are second to none.

 

[Ardent]

Please, what are you basing the 700 bolt handle "falling off" statement on? My 700 has never had its bolt fall off, nor have I had any problems witht he extractor. In fact I haven't had any problems with any of the 700s I have owned.

I also question why police departments throughout North America and the US military use Remington 700s if the bolt handles "fall off"?

If Ruger is that much better a rifle why hasn't the Military adopted it? Or police departments? You know the guys whose life may well depend on the rifle functioning?

We live in much different places. Up here, not an uncommon occurrence, if you want gunsmith references they won't be hard to come by. The solder/braze on the bolt doesn't stand up to deep soaking at -40 like a one piece Ruger bolt will. Same for the tiny clip extractor. Police departments use them, and increasingly Savage, for a reason; they're inexpensive. Same goes for US Military. I knew bringing this up was going to step on some toes.

Design Details

The Remington 700 action is designed for mass production [5]. Despite its cost-effective production methods, it is very strong and reliable, and has a large worldwide following. It is a manually-operated bolt action with 2 forward dual-opposed lugs and a rear safety lug formed by the bolt handle lug sitting in a receiver recess. The bolt face is recessed, fully enclosing the base of the cartridge, The extractor is a C-clip sitting within the bolt face. The ejector is a plunger on the bolt face actuated by a coil spring. The bolt is of 3-piece construction, brazed together (head, body and bolt handle). Due to the bolt's multiple component brazed together construction, the bolt handle is capable of being broken off the bolt body under severe conditions such as extreme cold, very rough use, or an external impact rendering the rifle inoperable. The receiver is milled from round cross-section steel of highest quality [4].

 

[rgv]

We live in much different places. Up here, not an uncommon occurrence.

you are saying that remington bolt handles falling off in N AB is a common occurence?

 

[Calum]

I also question why police departments throughout North America and the US military use Remington 700s if the bolt handles "fall off"?

If Ruger is that much better a rifle why hasn't the Military adopted it? Or police departments? You know the guys whose life may well depend on the rifle functioning?

These days having equipment built by the lowest bidder in a contract isn't always a good thing.

Also these Government agencies have the luxury of tax dollars to replace and fine tune any problem parts...which is often way out of the ability of most Hunters and other civilian gun owners.

 

[sgt.rock]

One guy I shoot with occasionally at our club brought a new Remington VTR?? The green bolt action with the triangular barrel in .308 win. Anyhow, he was getting 9-10" groups at 100 yards after laser boresighting the gun. I thought it might have been the ammo he was using, but he was not laughing. Anyhow, I asked him if he cleaned the gun when he bought it, and he told me he ran a couple of cloths with hoppe's soaked on them through it and they came out pretty clean. So I took the bolt out, held it up to the light to look through the bore, and to my shock, all I could see was ONE single groove for a portion of the barrel. There was no rifling in the barrel. Only about 5" from the chamber back. I couldn't stop laughing, I have never seen anything quite like that before. Anyhow, He is sending rifle back for a refund. That's seems like a minor dip in the quality control levels at Remington doesn't it???
I told him to check the bottle of Hoppes to see if it was switched with battery acid LOL
Get the Ruger Hawkeye. Period.

 

[Ardent]

you are saying that remington bolt handles falling off in N AB is a common occurence?

Certainly common enough it's not big news, and it doesn't have to be up here. I'll stick with one piece bolts, or at the very least welded or threaded, for rifles used in the field. Just got back from Africa, took a Ruger.

Here's a few mins' worth of google/copy/paste, I'm good with my Ruger thanks. Tried both, have owned a half dozen or more 700's, a few things moved me away from them, at the forefront, brazed bolt construction.

I have a Remington 700 ADL that I got 18 months ago new. Opening the bolt this evening, the bolt handle came cleanly off the bolt. Has anyone had this happened before?

But I also had one just fall off. No beating, no abuse, it just fell off as I gently closed the bolt at the range. Just a bad job of brazing. A gunsmith re-attached it properly.

one break off after adjusting a trigger for a friend while being "mean" to the rifle, safety testing to make sure an accidental discharge could not happen. Had him contact Remington which did everything but send someone to his house to apologize in person. They sent him a box with a prepaid return label, and fixed it quickly too. (And didn't mess with the trigger which I had adjusted back to where Remington had it.)

Hey guys, I was at the range today and had a round that I suspect needed to FL sized and was pretty tight. Bolt would not close or open so I put some pressure to it and the joint broke. Who out there does this kind of repair? The bolt did open so it is not stuck. Thanks.

Ripped one off a rifle once, and your thoughts are similar to mnie. I was glad my ass wasn't on the line, since then I have been buying rifles with a one piece bolt (surgeon).

ok first i am a big 700 fan have several and most are costume barreeled and several with mcmillian stocks and jewel trigger just telling you this to show how much faith i lay in this action but i have had one bolt handle come off not a 700 but a 7 but here is how it happened while in my loading shop getting ready for deer season 09 it was standing up in rack with bolt open some how i knocked it out and hit the floor right on open bolt handle and bing bolt handle came off so i called rem. they said send it in so i sent just bolt and handle was (not sure if they would replace my jewel trigger or not like my schillen barelle) but now it gets good gave them a week and called them to check up on it to see when i might get it (daughter was going to use it for deer season) but make a long story short they lost my bolt so they said send it in (barreled action) and they would fit it with new bolt they would send prepaid shipping lable 10 days later no shipping lable bolt arrived fixed and renewed bolt jewling shipping lable arrived one week later lol my thoughts rem is soild product but costumer service might need a little work ?

Got to wrk this morning and one of the guys said the bolt handle had broken off of his Remington 700 (sorry he couldn't remember the exact modle?) and it still has a live round in the chamber!, he said he didn't remember if he had the safety on or not? and that his reloads were a bit hard to chamber.
He said he hadn't messed with it much to see about getting the bolt open, so? and he did mention that the bolt handle looked like it was on spot welded to the bolt body?

Any insight and or comments would be apresiated at this point, I'll add details as they becom available, as I haven't seen the gun yet? and I have virtualy 0 experiance with Remington center fire riffles.

Again any experiance, comments or even speculation is welcom at this point.

 

[X-fan]

I just don't like Remingtons, push feed, soldered/brazed together, multi-piece bolt, and made for cheap production over all other attributes. It's the Ford Taurus of bolt actions. Works, but there are much, much better choices for hunting. The bolt handles also have a nasty habit of breaking their solder on extremely cold days and falling off the gun, and the extractor is a joke. I've built long range rigs on them, and they are very easy to work on, and are very accurate. Fine for a bench gun, but I don't like them for the field.

No disrespect, but I believe the bolt handle/extractor thing is severely overstated here.
You quote from some of the American gun sites where it is common practice to run the most idiotic (Darwin Awards here we come) load possible.
What do you think they were doing just before the handle came loose?

I've got over 30 years behind the trigger of a Remington and have never experienced a failure to extract or had a bolt handle fall off?
Along the way I have done plenty of stupid sh1t over the years that would provoke such a failure.
You will have to trust me on that one.

That the US military has used the Remington 700 as a primary sniper system for over 30 years should also tell you something. As tough as hunting can be on equipment we are not killing bipeds in the sand box.

Ask someone with the experience and reputation of Dennis Sorensen (Guntech) how many Remington bolts or extractors he has repaired in the last 50 years? I believe the only extractors Dennis has repaired are ones that the customer screwed with.

I have heard of bolts needing repair after being smashed open with a 2X4 because of an extreme overload, but that is the sort of load that you DO NOT want to experience in an action like a pre 64 Winchester or really anything BUT a Remington.

IMHO the minor complaints common to a Remington are grossly overshadowed by its enormous strength and built in safety factor.

 

[Ardent]

There's some things the M700 is great for, and Dennis has built an M700 long range rig for me too so as I mentioned the action has some merits to me, but overall I just don't see much use for actions with brazed together parts and push feed in the hunting field. There's just plain better options. Certainly it works, but when you can get a Ruger, that has utterly a near-zero chance of breaking a bolt handle or extractor, and has a slicker action, the choice is clear to me. Everything, from the floorplate to the bolt handle, is just plain built better on a Model 77, for a hunter. Africa, for instance, has different standards for rifles, and you just plain do not see Remingtons going after dangerous game, for good reason.

You have good points, and for sure, the internet's a goofy place full of some pretty dumb sh1t, but the fact stands, find a Ruger M77 the bolt handle has broken off of, overload's in its past or not. If I'm building a straight up target rig, I still would use one, they're accurate and easy to work with. For field conditions, I just see no reason not to select a better alternative however.

 

[Toomanyguns]

What makes a Remington action safer in an overload situation?

 

[.330 Dakota]

Indeed, the 270 does it all, from gophers to grizzlies.

Ted

I have seen the 270 cleanly take moose no problem., its's a fool who shoots at a grizzly with one unless he is an amazing shot.
It will do the job, but will not stop an enraged bear.
Seen it 1st hand

 

[burnt_servo]

the thing with tradex's husqvarna's is how do I tell the top rifles to the lesser ones, what am I looking for? Also will basic bases fit on these rifles, or do I need the rifle to be drilled by a gunsmith?

Do they all have the mauser action?

the guys at tradex have a reputation for high quality rifles , and being very honest .
if they tell you there are a couple dings in the stock , you will have a very hard time trying to find those dings they are so small type of thing .

their website also shows fairly well detailed pics of the rifles they have in stock .

the 270 husqavarna i have looks like it has regular bases on it . some of their rifles are already drilled / have bases .

and yes these are a mauser action
your best bet would be to phone them and tell them what your looking for .

 

[mikeyb]

Of the 3, I would buy the Winchester M70. There is nothing I don't like about them. I like Remington M700's, but they've certainly been cutting corners lately. I heard the new Ruger Hawkeye rifles are better than the M77 Mk II's, which is good because I liked the Mk II actions, but thought the rest of the gun was junk and got rid of mine a while ago.

I would also consider Kimber, for not much more money they are both beautiful and accurate. A little more gets you into Sako or Cooper territory, both of which are excellent guns. On the cheaper side, Weatherby Vanguard sporter is also nice if you like the Weatherby style but they're an acquired taste.