Wk 180 factory sweat equity trigger job

L

lmar

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Everyone who has been paying attention knows that the WK 180 trigger is terrible.

After receiving my rifle yesterday and playing with it for a while - it is bad as people said it was.

When I purchased the rifle I wanted to keep things simple as I believed in Mr. Wolverines vision of a utility rifle.

In addition, I am a cheap bastard, and wanted to see how well I could fix things without spending a large sum of money on a new trigger.

I do not have stones or other gunsmithing tools which would allow me to do serious damage without trying too hard.

My foolproof method was to see how much improvement I could get with a dremel tool and some metal polish.

Followed video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7EdZXz0Pfw

However, I couldn't find Filtz so I went to Canadian Tire and found the following for 18.00 (Autosol Metal Polish).

It took longer to disassemble the trigger assembly than to polish the sear.

BE CAREFUL WHEN DISASSEMBLING THE RIFLE AS PARTS ARE UNDER TENSION - don't ask me how I know this.

The results were pretty good. Since I didn't clip the hammer spring (Don't want hard primers to not go bang when I pull the trigger) I didn't notice a big difference in trigger weight (I don't have a guage).

However, the "slack" (1st stage) has been reduced as well as any grittiness has disappeared.

The break (2nd stage) is a lot cleaner and happens quicker.

The overall effort required to pull the trigger has been reduced considerably (at least perceived by me).

A test I did before the trigger job was to look through the reticle of my scope and watch how much it moved while I was pulling the trigger (unsupported).

Repeating the same test (identical target & distance) afterward -- resulted in an 80-90 % reduction in movement.

Was pretty happy with the result and have now reconsidered purchasing aftermarket trigger for the rifle.

Cheers,

L
 
Thanks, I’m going to have to try this. I’ve been trying load development off the bench with a sightron 10-50x for this purpose. This scope let’s me see exactly what is happening. I find I can only hold within 3/4 moa due to that trigger, and it’s quite the agonizing effort!
 
flyinlead said:
Thanks, I’m going to have to try this. I’ve been trying load development off the bench with a sightron 10-50x for this purpose. This scope let’s me see exactly what is happening. I find I can only hold within 3/4 moa due to that trigger, and it’s quite the agonizing effort!
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I feel your pain. Your load development should see some positive results from the trigger work. I can now stack the first stage to remove the slack. Once final alignment of my reticle is where I want it a uniform squeeze of the trigger results in an almost clean break.

L
 
Put in an ALG ACT if you're looking for a low budget huge improvement.
I put one in my 180B-2 and it is so much better now.
It's a single stage by the way and in case you're wondering if it's any good considering it's only just over $100 ALG is a child company of Geissele.
It's also nickel boron coated so it looks cool and is nice and smooth.
 
cr5 said:
Put in an ALG ACT if you're looking for a low budget huge improvement.
I put one in my 180B-2 and it is so much better now.
It's a single stage by the way and in case you're wondering if it's any good considering it's only just over $100 ALG is a child company of Geissele.
It's also nickel boron coated so it looks cool and is nice and smooth.
Click to expand...

I was considering this option until I decided on the polishing route. If things hadn't worked out as they did I most likely would have gone this route.
 
lmar said:
I was considering this option until I decided on the polishing route. If things hadn't worked out as they did I most likely would have gone this route.
Click to expand...

I'm sure polishing it made a huge improvement but it's still a cheap milspec trigger.
I worry about polishing surface hardened parts, especially trigger components, as I'm sure you know it doesn't take much to go too deep and get into the soft material especially when using power tools. Once through the surface hardening it will wear quickly and could fail to function correctly. Plus, any change in the geometry between the parts could create an unsafe rifle.
This is why I never suggest anyone take a dremel to their rifle for any reason. Some people have the skills and knowledge to do it well but most have no idea what they're doing and can easily ruin their trigger and potentially create an unsafe firearm.
I'm glad your trigger is better now, too bad you don't live closer or I'd invite you out to my place to try my 180B with the ALG trigger, best $100 I've spent on rifle upgrades. I have one in my AR-15 and one in the 180B, huge improvement.
 
lone-wolf said:
I found a few minutes with the paracord trick did some good
Click to expand...

I've heard that works pretty well, like shooting it 1000 times without leaving your living room :)

What do you put between the receiver and the hammer to stop the receiver from getting beat up by the hammer?

I'm still convinced that for $100ish there is no better budget solution to a crappy trigger though.
 
Dremels and triggers are generally a bad idea - from my experience (considerable) in tuning AR triggers, a 1200 grit stone to polish the front mating surface of the trigger is all you really need to do. You're not looking to remove metal (which may change the angle of the sear engagement and reduce safety factors built into the design) you're looking to smooth the metal.

Bear in mind, most AR type triggers are only case hardened - if you remove even as little as 0.005" of metal, you can weaken the surface and it may end up chipping off.

NS
 
NavyShooter said:
Dremels and triggers are generally a bad idea - from my experience (considerable) in tuning AR triggers, a 1200 grit stone to polish the front mating surface of the trigger is all you really need to do. You're not looking to remove metal (which may change the angle of the sear engagement and reduce safety factors built into the design) you're looking to smooth the metal.

Bear in mind, most AR type triggers are only case hardened - if you remove even as little as 0.005" of metal, you can weaken the surface and it may end up chipping off.

NS
Click to expand...

I agree that Dremel Tool and a grinding "anything" is a bad idea for the very reasons you mentioned above.
Which is why polishing compound and a felt wheel is what I used. The 3000++ grit means you are not removing metal - just knocking down the higher points (roughness) and partially evening up the surfaces.
As such, the chance of breaking through the case hardening would be little to none.

My objective was to clean up the existing trigger rather than trying to modify it. Pull weight remains the same, two-stage creep is still there, final trip weight is still too high for what I consider a really good trigger.
I've played with trigger sears in the past using stones and other methods to reduce weight/angles etc... and have left a trail of wrecked parts in my path.

Cheers,

L
 
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lmar said:
I've played with trigger sears in the past using stones and other methods to reduce weight/angles etc... and have left a trail of wrecked parts in my path.

Cheers,

L
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This is exactly why I don't mess with triggers other than to simply use them and let them break in naturally. I never suggest to anyone that they do anything other than replace it if they don't like the trigger it came with.
It's way too easy for someone who doesn't know what they're doing to screw it up and create an unsafe situation. And no, I don't look at it as something to learn from and get better at it trying again. If someone wants to learn to do a trigger they should take a gunsmithing course and learn to do it right using the right tools. Dry firing and the shoelace/paracord methods are the only things I think 98% of us should do to our triggers (yes, I'm part of the 98%).

My 180B-2 came with a terrible trigger but after 1000 rounds it was smoothing out nicely, I replaced it with the ALG ACT anyway just because I already had one in my AR and knew the factory trigger would never be as nice as the ALG is from the first pull.
Even though you say your trigger is a lot better now I would still suggest you replace it with a quality trigger. The ALG can't be beat at around $100. If budget is not a concern there are plenty of better options but on a rifle like this I wouldn't go dropping a $400 trigger into it, just seems wrong to put a $400 trigger in a $1000 beater rifle.
 
cr5 said:
This is exactly why I don't mess with triggers other than to simply use them and let them break in naturally. I never suggest to anyone that they do anything other than replace it if they don't like the trigger it came with.
It's way too easy for someone who doesn't know what they're doing to screw it up and create an unsafe situation. And no, I don't look at it as something to learn from and get better at it trying again. If someone wants to learn to do a trigger they should take a gunsmithing course and learn to do it right using the right tools. Dry firing and the shoelace/paracord methods are the only things I think 98% of us should do to our triggers (yes, I'm part of the 98%).

My 180B-2 came with a terrible trigger but after 1000 rounds it was smoothing out nicely, I replaced it with the ALG ACT anyway just because I already had one in my AR and knew the factory trigger would never be as nice as the ALG is from the first pull.
Even though you say your trigger is a lot better now I would still suggest you replace it with a quality trigger. The ALG can't be beat at around $100. If budget is not a concern there are plenty of better options but on a rifle like this I wouldn't go dropping a $400 trigger into it, just seems wrong to put a $400 trigger in a $1000 beater rifle.
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The objective of the exercise was to see how much of an improvement could be obtained by spending the least amount of money. The ALG ACT was under consideration before this experiment was performed and may still be considered at a future date.

If you can't figure out how to disassemble your trigger assembly (and re-assemble it) then, by all means, use your natural method of dry-firing the gun, or send 1000's of rounds downrange. Alternatively, if you want to speed up the process use the paracord method (its increasing the normal force between the mating parts) which is used to accellerate wear (mating) of the two surfaces. The method I proposed is identical except it requires dissasembling the gun and spending a total of 30 seconds (15 seconds a surface X 2 surfaces) to obtain better results.

There is no difference between methods with respect to safety. It just takes different amounts of time to obtain the same final surface roughness on the mating parts.
(i.e. Wearing in the parts using a variation of the natural method is called breaking-in or wearing-in. Doing the same thing with a mild abrasive and a spinning felt wheel is called polishing).

Cheers,
 
lmar said:
The objective of the exercise was to see how much of an improvement could be obtained by spending the least amount of money. The ALG ACT was under consideration before this experiment was performed and may still be considered at a future date.

If you can't figure out how to disassemble your trigger assembly (and re-assemble it) then, by all means, use your natural method of dry-firing the gun, or send 1000's of rounds downrange. Alternatively, if you want to speed up the process use the paracord method (its increasing the normal force between the mating parts) which is used to accellerate wear (mating) of the two surfaces. The method I proposed is identical except it requires dissasembling the gun and spending a total of 30 seconds (15 seconds a surface X 2 surfaces) to obtain better results.

There is no difference between methods with respect to safety. It just takes different amounts of time to obtain the same final surface roughness on the mating parts.
(i.e. Wearing in the parts using a variation of the natural method is called breaking-in or wearing-in. Doing the same thing with a mild abrasive and a spinning felt wheel is called polishing).

Cheers,
Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with knowing how to remove a trigger and put it back in. I've done that many times and built numerous AR's from parts. The point I'm trying to make is that while many of us can easily do the stuff you describe there are more people that have no business inside a rifle, especially doing anything that could potentially ruin the trigger and create an unsafe rifle.
I've read way too many posts on this site from guys who bought an SLR receiver set or have tried to put their own AR together or modify the AR they bought that have no clue what they are doing. Breaking parts and not being able to figure out how to put things together, asking questions that make it very obvious that they don't understand the workings of the rifle. There are people in our sport who should simply not do some things, they may be perfectly capable of shooting their rifles and could easily compete in many of the various shooting sports but when it comes to maintenance or even understanding how their rifle works or how the gas system and recoil system need to be balanced. Taking a 20 inch AR and putting a short barrel on it then swapping buffers tubes without changing the buffer or spring then not knowing why it won't cycle far enough back.

There are just some things that can't be learned from watching a youtube video or reading a post in a forum, and trigger jobs are one of those things that the average person should not be messing with. It's too easy to screw it up.
 
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