WK-180 Piston Rods

Rfn

Rfn

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I am a WK-180 fan. I like the platform. I own two. So, this isn’t a flame job directed at Kodiak, if your gonna try to turn this thread into it, please don’t. Start your own.

Just an honest question, how many more people have had problems with them snapping? And don’t shill for Kodiak about ‘awesome customer service’ I know, I’ve talked to them, and I think he’s doing the best he can. BUT, it’s obviously still a problem.

So, is it a design problem? A QC problem with tempering? I don’t know, but I’ve got two busted piston rods and I’m trying to come up with a solution.

Is anyone looking at making an aftermarket solution? I’d be happy to pay for a reliable solution to this issue.
 
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Right? So what’s the solution? Let’s not just ignore this, let’s come up with a solution. And I know the ‘gas block wobble’ issue from not lock tighting the block/screws has been used as an excuse, but this rifle has been sorted. And it still happened…again. So, please, if you have any insight or possible solutions, post.
 
Like it or not guys, This is what we have right now under our overlords rule. For now…

This forum has some of the most big brained people in this county on it. Engineers, metal workers, fabricators, and whatnot…so..? Let’s throw some solutions at the wall and see what sticks. I’m hoping the right people might see this as well. I just want a solution.
 
first - is it a problem with the rod? loose or mis-aligned gas block putting stresses on the rod from off-angles?

or is it because it is getting hammered too hard because gun is over-gassed- the new adjustable gas block might be a soln?
 
Rfn said:
I am a WK-180 fan. I like the platform. I own two. So, this isn’t a flame job directed at Kodiak, if your gonna try to turn this thread into it, please don’t. Start your own.

Just an honest question, how many more people have had problems with them snapping? And don’t shill for Kodiak about ‘awesome customer service’ I know, I’ve talked to them, and I think he’s doing the best he can. BUT, it’s obviously still a problem.

So, is it a design problem? A QC problem with tempering? I don’t know, but I’ve got two busted piston rods and I’m trying to come up with a solution.

Is anyone looking at making an aftermarket solution? I’d be happy to pay for a reliable solution to this issue.
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Just curious - what's the age of your WK - was it bought recently or a couple of years ago?
 
The gas block was half assed installed. Not gonna lie. I was disappointed. The screws weren’t torqued properly, and zero lock tite was applied. So yeah, that’s a defect/negligence in my opinion. Totally unacceptable. However, I addressed this. And the same issue happened again.
 
But allow me to once again pump the brakes here, I’m not crapping on Kodiak.

I am old enough to remember pig tail gas tubes and all that junk in the early 90’s when no one had industry standards for the AR.
So this i where I see us with this platform.

We can figure this out.
 
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the radium king said:
first - is it a problem with the rod? loose or mis-aligned gas block putting stresses on the rod from off-angles?

or is it because it is getting hammered too hard because gun is over-gassed- the new adjustable gas block might be a soln?
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Thank you for your response Sir, you bring up a good point. Is the gun over gassed? Perhaps. But, an adjustable gas block will regulate gas within an acceptable level, IE, the gun is ‘dirty’ or inclement environments. But it shouldn’t snap rods.

So….?
 
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steel rod in an aluminum hole....if well aligned, lubed and without any "grit" it should be fine....dirty ammo, lack of cleaning, over lubing a dirty action could contribute to wear and enlarge the aluminum hole....the brass insert sounds promising....not sure how high quality the rods are but perhaps a better heat treat???? just guessing here....
 
All valid points, thank you for your insight.

After the first failure, I installed the brass bushing upgrade, I had high hopes, however, 200’ish rounds later and another broken piston.

So problem solving here, the gas block is rock solid, it’s torqued and lock tighted. Solid. So it’s not that.

Did I misalign the hole for the brass bushing? Possibly, but it slides fine, no glaring bind ups or problems.

Both rods snapped at exactly the same point, obviously where it’s machined down to the narrower section. It’s obviously a structural weak point, granted, but I’m hoping someone with some engineering or metal working background will chime in.

I want this gun to work. And yeah, I know, it’s made in Canada. I get that, but why has that become such a defeatist response? I’ve seen it repeatedly on this and other forums. I don’t want this thread to end up like that.

Thats why I want to hear from the big brains. How would you fix this? Maybe someone with a lathe or a machine shop is reading this, and we can come up with an aftermarket solution. You never know.
 
Rfn said:
All valid points, thank you for your insight.

After the first failure, I installed the brass bushing upgrade, I had high hopes, however, 200’ish rounds later and another broken piston.

So problem solving here, the gas block is rock solid, it’s torqued and lock tighted. Solid. So it’s not that.

Did I misalign the hole for the brass bushing? Possibly, but it slides fine, no glaring bind ups or problems.

Both rods snapped at exactly the same point, obviously where it’s machined down to the narrower section. It’s obviously a structural weak point, granted, but I’m hoping someone with some engineering or metal working background will chime in.

I want this gun to work. And yeah, I know, it’s made in Canada. I get that, but why has that become such a defeatist response? I’ve seen it repeatedly on this and other forums. I don’t want this thread to end up like that.

Thats why I want to hear from the big brains. How would you fix this? Maybe someone with a lathe or a machine shop is reading this, and we can come up with an aftermarket solution. You never know.
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Can you please post the pictures of the broken piston rods?
 
This is the first one, with the plastic bushing.
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From my short time owning one, this is what I think is the likely cause or culprits contributing to the piston rod failures:

- Overgassed: Carbine length gas on a rifle length barrel that is 18.5" with no adjustability = considerable blow off. I needed to adjust my grip from away from the block I was getting so much carbon fouling through the hand guards onto my support hand.

- Piston design and construction: No chamfering of the gas bearing portion and a tight fit with the block means there is no room for error in alignment. Combine this with the small diameter, possible inappropriate choice of metal for this part , and the ability for the block to walk out of alignment and you have a stress point easily fractured.

That is my uneducated guess based on having owned many semi-auto designs over the years.
 
beltfed said:
From my short time owning one, this is what I think is the likely cause or culprits contributing to the piston rod failures:

- Overgassed: Carbine length gas on a rifle length barrel that is 18.5" with no adjustability = considerable blow off. I needed to adjust my grip from away from the block I was getting so much carbon fouling through the hand guards onto my support hand.

- Piston design and construction: No chamfering of the gas bearing portion and a tight fit with the block means there is no room for error in alignment. Combine this with the small diameter, possible inappropriate choice of metal for this part , and the ability for the block to walk out of alignment and you have a stress point easily fractured.

That is my uneducated guess based on having owned many semi-auto designs over the years.
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Now THATS what I’m taking about…thank you for your input!

So with that said, do you think a modified piston would address this (design vs possible poor heat treatment or quality of the rod itself) or is this a gas port size issue?

I know, I’m asking for speculation, but we have to start somewhere.

I am very thankful John and Kodiak even started this, when they did. I could care less about the politics or whatever of what transpired afterwords, I’m just a dude who wants his gun to work.

But I am sympathetic (to a degree) with Kodiak. How many guns have they made? How many are out there? So what if they ‘improve’ a piston? They will have how many people screaming for warranty upgrades. I get it. It’s like trying to redesign the airplane while your flying in it…so I don’t expect them to jump into the fray and admit possible problems. We have to be realistic. I’m a realist. But I’m also a capitalist. Let’s see some solutions. I’ll pay, and I’m sure lots of other WK owners will to.
 
Thank you for your response, may I ask, other than the obvious longer length, was the actual piston design significantly changed? Compared to the factory one? Diameter? Piston cup shape? Spring?


Crusader said:
I went with a mid length gas system. Yeah I needed to buy a new barrel and piston but I don't seem to have these problems.
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No. On mine it looks like a larger radius from the fat part to the skinny part but other than being 2" longer, I see nothing else.

But the internet tells me that the port pressure from a carbine to mid length is 5000psi less.
 
I’d be curious to know how the barrels that ATRS are making for the platform are preforming. I know those guys are sizing the gas port much smaller than factory, and they know what they’re doing when it comes to barrel making.

Like others have said, there is likely several factors contributing to the snapped rods, but maybe solving the over gassing would keep the rod from experiencing stress it can’t handle. That being said, the adjustable gas block might do the trick as well with a lower price tag.

I have a metal lathe at home, if I had time I would try and make one out of tool steel or something. I haven’t had my rod break (ws-mcr) I’m not sure if the two manufacturers are using different materials or not.
 
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