Wolves - The Curse That They Are
- Thread starter ronecol
- Start date
Bullsh*t! Wolves have been wolves for as long as there have been wolves. Those pics are nature and if you can't stomach it don't look at them, but it certainly does not make a case for exterminating them. These are just ranchers/guides/outfitters who do not like wolves, who do not want to compete with them. These animals belong in nature, they are predators, they deserve to be there. Humans do not need to police the elements of nature they find upsetting.
yup I would have to agree with this. That is nature it has been happening before we have even been on this earth. Website seems a bit one sided....like a Michael Moore doc.
I'm just a bush guy but I've spent a lot of time out there and have seen wolves only twice. Once in NW Ontario and once in the NWT. I know that they killed that geophysics worker in Saskatchewan but overall I don't worry about them when I am in the bush.
I can understand how ranchers and anyone else with livestock would be wary of them.
I can understand how ranchers and anyone else with livestock would be wary of them.
Exert from
Anchorage Daily News
Helicopter wolf-kills help caribou calves
SURVEYS: Survival rate soars after shooters thin a herd's predators.
By CRAIG MEDRED
Published: November 11th, 2008 10:53 PM
Last Modified: November 11th, 2008 07:41 AM
Slaughtering wolves on the Alaska Peninsula appears to have had the desired effect - more caribou got a chance to live, according to biologists with the Alaska Department of Fish and Game.
As ugly and as politically incorrect as the wolf killing might seem to some, they said, the helicopter gunning that took place earlier this year saved caribou, especially young caribou, from being eaten alive. Fall surveys of the Southern Alaska Peninsula caribou herd completed in October found an average of 39 calves per 100 cows. That's a dramatic improvement from fall counts of only 1 calf per 100 cows in 2006 and 2007. The success of past wolf-control programs, and of some of those still under way elsewhere in the state, has varied significantly, depending on what predators were involved. In some cases, bears, eagles and climate have proved to have more influence on calf survival than wolves. In this case, however, even some groups staunchly opposed to Alaska wolf-control efforts are conceding the removal of 28 wolves appears to have played a major role in caribou calf survival. "I think that certainly is good news," said John Toppenberg of the Alaska Wildlife Alliance. "I am supportive of that goal. How they arrived at that I might have an issue with." The southern peninsula caribou has been in a free fall for several years. Numbering almost 5,000 animals at the start of this decade, the southern herd had shrunk to about 600 caribou by last year. A joint state-federal management plans calls for maintaining a herd of 3,000 to 3,500 animals to provide for local subsistence needs and the general productivity of the ecosystem. Researchers studying the caribou decline concluded that the range the caribou use in and around the Izembek National Wildlife Refuge has plenty of food, and the few bull caribou shot by hunters prior to a prohibition on all hunting last year weren't an issue. What was fueling the decline, researchers said, was the high ratio of predators – bears and wolves -- to prey in the area. The predators were killing and eating caribou faster than the animals could reproduce, leaving the population nowhere to go but down.
Ron
Anchorage Daily News
Helicopter wolf-kills help caribou calves
SURVEYS: Survival rate soars after shooters thin a herd's predators.
By CRAIG MEDRED
Published: November 11th, 2008 10:53 PM
Last Modified: November 11th, 2008 07:41 AM
Slaughtering wolves on the Alaska Peninsula appears to have had the desired effect - more caribou got a chance to live, according to biologists with the Alaska Department of Fish and Game.
As ugly and as politically incorrect as the wolf killing might seem to some, they said, the helicopter gunning that took place earlier this year saved caribou, especially young caribou, from being eaten alive. Fall surveys of the Southern Alaska Peninsula caribou herd completed in October found an average of 39 calves per 100 cows. That's a dramatic improvement from fall counts of only 1 calf per 100 cows in 2006 and 2007. The success of past wolf-control programs, and of some of those still under way elsewhere in the state, has varied significantly, depending on what predators were involved. In some cases, bears, eagles and climate have proved to have more influence on calf survival than wolves. In this case, however, even some groups staunchly opposed to Alaska wolf-control efforts are conceding the removal of 28 wolves appears to have played a major role in caribou calf survival. "I think that certainly is good news," said John Toppenberg of the Alaska Wildlife Alliance. "I am supportive of that goal. How they arrived at that I might have an issue with." The southern peninsula caribou has been in a free fall for several years. Numbering almost 5,000 animals at the start of this decade, the southern herd had shrunk to about 600 caribou by last year. A joint state-federal management plans calls for maintaining a herd of 3,000 to 3,500 animals to provide for local subsistence needs and the general productivity of the ecosystem. Researchers studying the caribou decline concluded that the range the caribou use in and around the Izembek National Wildlife Refuge has plenty of food, and the few bull caribou shot by hunters prior to a prohibition on all hunting last year weren't an issue. What was fueling the decline, researchers said, was the high ratio of predators – bears and wolves -- to prey in the area. The predators were killing and eating caribou faster than the animals could reproduce, leaving the population nowhere to go but down.
Ron
blaming wolves for killing all of the ungulates in areas and killing them because of it is like blaming and killing killer whales for the lower salmon numbers on the coast....that type of control doesn't work....look at Yellowstone's history in regards to the wolf elk relationship...no animal will waste food if it is hungry or if there is very little available.. maybe the issue is that the number of elk in certain areas is too high and there is an abundance available...some of the kills are also #####es teaching their young how to hunt and kill prey...if you wait until you are hungry to learn how to bring down an elk it might not go so well.
Controlling wolf numbers to help a caribou herd that has been reduced by many factors is not exactly intelligent science. Wolves and prey will find a proper balance as long as other factors are not contributing. Unfortunately, this rarely happens.
Wolves have been hitting the ungulate populations pretty hard in many areas of BC in recent years.
There is no doubt that wolves are a part of nature, but that doesn't mean thier populations shouldn't be managed like all wildlife.
There is a common misconception that wolves only kill "sick, weak, old" animals. That is utter bull####, they kill every class of animal, and they will often kill for fun, and waste the meat, just like many of these pictures show. Wolves can and will decimate an area of ungulates, then move on to the next area, and do the same.
Nature manages wildlife by a peak and valley model. Unfortunately, in some situations, this can have really horrible consequences, resulting the disappearance of prey species and the starvation of predators, or force predators to prey upon livestock or enter into human conflicts. In extreme situations it can result in a species of prey animal disappearing altogether.
Humans have always been a part of nature, and prefer to see a more even wildlife management approach. Part of this approach is to allow humans to control predator populations by hunting them, as humans have always hunted the predator species.
There is no doubt that wolves are a part of nature, but that doesn't mean thier populations shouldn't be managed like all wildlife.
There is a common misconception that wolves only kill "sick, weak, old" animals. That is utter bull####, they kill every class of animal, and they will often kill for fun, and waste the meat, just like many of these pictures show. Wolves can and will decimate an area of ungulates, then move on to the next area, and do the same.
Nature manages wildlife by a peak and valley model. Unfortunately, in some situations, this can have really horrible consequences, resulting the disappearance of prey species and the starvation of predators, or force predators to prey upon livestock or enter into human conflicts. In extreme situations it can result in a species of prey animal disappearing altogether.
Humans have always been a part of nature, and prefer to see a more even wildlife management approach. Part of this approach is to allow humans to control predator populations by hunting them, as humans have always hunted the predator species.
The problem is that other factors are ALWAYS contributing....Which is why killing some animals that have no populaiton problem (wolves) to strengthen a herd of dwindling caribou makes alot of sense.
I agree with that, but the argument that wolves are bad because they kill, often in brutal fashion, is ridiculous. That particular case in Alaska is very different from what is going on south of the border. Many states like Wyoming and Idaho have only just re-introduced wolves and already people are calling for their elimination. The biology of wolves is hotly debated and quite often wrong, but the fact remains they are a part of the natural balance just as any predatory species. I have no problem with controlling wildlife populations, but at one point does rational science get replaced by myopic hatred?
Patrick
I'm not for eliminating any species, but I can understand why people would like thier populations controlled by hunting seasons, at least.
Wolves kill 120 sheep near Dillon
Posted: Aug 28, 2009 08:59 AM
Updated: Aug 28, 2009 08:59 AM
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Most-Clicked Stories & Recent Comments
DILLON, Mont. (AP) - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service officials say wolves killed 120 sheep in a pasture south of Dillon, more than were killed by wolves in the entire state a year earlier.
The dead sheep were found on the Rebish/Konen Livestock Ranch on Aug. 16.
Carolyn Sime, statewide wolf coordinator for the Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks, says it's one of the most significant losses she's seen.
Sime says wolves killed 111 sheep in Montana in 2008.
Suzanne Stone with Defenders of Wildlife, a group that pays ranchers for livestock lost to wolves, says this is the first time she's heard of such a mass killing.
Kathy Konen says the sheep were killed, but their carcasses were almost all intact.
Federal trappers shot two wolves in the area and were searching for a third, but declined Jon Konen's request to kill two adults and five pups in a nearby pack.
Wolves kill 120 sheep near Dillon
Posted: Aug 28, 2009 08:59 AM
Updated: Aug 28, 2009 08:59 AM
Related Link
Most-Clicked Stories & Recent Comments
DILLON, Mont. (AP) - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service officials say wolves killed 120 sheep in a pasture south of Dillon, more than were killed by wolves in the entire state a year earlier.
The dead sheep were found on the Rebish/Konen Livestock Ranch on Aug. 16.
Carolyn Sime, statewide wolf coordinator for the Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks, says it's one of the most significant losses she's seen.
Sime says wolves killed 111 sheep in Montana in 2008.
Suzanne Stone with Defenders of Wildlife, a group that pays ranchers for livestock lost to wolves, says this is the first time she's heard of such a mass killing.
Kathy Konen says the sheep were killed, but their carcasses were almost all intact.
Federal trappers shot two wolves in the area and were searching for a third, but declined Jon Konen's request to kill two adults and five pups in a nearby pack.
(And, yes, of course I agree with you).Your argument is flawed because the wolves more recently introduced in Wyoming etc was not a re-introduction but an introduction of a different species not native to that area, specifically the Canadian Grey Wolf - a vicious killer and much larger than the native species which was the Timber Wolf. The few Timbers that did remain have now been iliminated by the recently introduced Canadian Grey. The elk stood a chance against the Timbers - that was nature and natural balance. The natural balance was destroyed when the Grey was introduced.
Ron
Timber wolves ARE grey wolves. There is NO difference between them other than terminology.
The whole issue of wolves is a hot subject around here right now. Their impact on the wild ungulate population - and domestic livestock - can't be dismissed. That is why our limit on wolves was just increased from 5 per year to "no-bag-limit" No one I know is calling for extinction of all wolves but almost everyone is in agreement that their number must be controlled.
Wolves are neither good nor evil. They are what they are. If anyone finds their behavior "wrong" they have no idea on how "cruel" - by human standards - nature really is.
The whole issue of wolves is a hot subject around here right now. Their impact on the wild ungulate population - and domestic livestock - can't be dismissed. That is why our limit on wolves was just increased from 5 per year to "no-bag-limit" No one I know is calling for extinction of all wolves but almost everyone is in agreement that their number must be controlled.
Wolves are neither good nor evil. They are what they are. If anyone finds their behavior "wrong" they have no idea on how "cruel" - by human standards - nature really is.
Unfortunately, this is 100% the ranchers fault, not the wolves. As is most livestock conflict with predators. We put the hens in the henhouse to keep the fox away, but we expect to free-range our grazing livestock, or use the cheapest wood or simple barbed wire fence lines and ensure thier safety.
Part of ranching or farming in predator prone regions, whether you are dealing with wolves, bears, cougars, etc. is the need to secure your pastures. Dig fences in at least 2-3 feet, and raise them with adequate structure to deter the predators, up to and including electric. The days of a cheap split rail fence and a loaded carbine to eradicate the pests are gone.
There are people and economies that rely on these wild animals just as much as ranching relies on livestock. Unfortunately, we have direct and total control over the success or failure of the livestock. We cannot with any reliability directly control the success or failure of the wildlife. Therefore, we have to tip the scale in thier favor to ensure they have a chance.
I have no issue with regular population control once a species reaches or exceeds sustainable limits however. Wolves are such a successful species in the absence of regular hunting by man, that we will have to expect to manage them to some extent.
