Wolves - The Curse That They Are

[bronco_mudder]

This is just crazy talk. You want to bury hundreds of miles of fences? Make them impossible to jump? If you want to tip the scale to favour wildlife, you aren't doing the wildlife any favours installing high fences! A decent sized dog like animal can easily clear a 6 foot fence, how about a fawn?

Where I live we have farms backed onto forests and river bottoms, including my gals family farm. This area has wolves, cougars, coyotes, bobcats, black bears, grizzly bears, foxes and some wolverine.

The fences are to keep the livestock in, not to keep predators out, as that is virtually impossible. What keeps the predator loss to a minimum is that they get shot at. There is no way to make fencing as you describe except on a very small scale.

I agree 100% Gatehouse. My first few years out of high school I worked on a 15,000 acre cattle ranch. There's no way in hell to fence in an operation of that size as described.....These cougars you speak of, are they of the two legged, or four legged type???

 

[CompBoy]

Now I will admit I like wolves always have. However a dog (close relative) does kill for pleasure and will kill both wild and livestock it's in their nature kind of like the deer and geese ruining farm crops. I don't think we should kill every one we see I think we should follow the game limits for the WMU we are in. Insure a healthly population as determined by population studies and sound ecology. Not the political game we are currently playing same as the spring bear hunt in Ontario. Focus on the population levels and raise the number of animals that can be removed by hunters. Ignoring the emotional things that PETA and the people who hate a specific animal. I hate birds but I don't want to see them destroyed. What I saw in Manitoba before I moved and the fields of geese is bad but so is hunting something because it kills for pleasure so does your dog and your cat. Don't see people advocating wiping out family pets. If the population is high then they should open up the season and increase the number you can take. Without emotion entering the mix

 

[G P]

Wolves keep the coyotes away.

 

[jwstewart]

I can't bring myself to agree that wolves kill for fun. Maybe instinct, practice, or it's in their general nature. But "fun" ? Fun is a human concept. I don't beleive Wolves have fun, and I'm pretty sure they don't laugh and tell jokes around the campfire either.

Now humans on the otherhand, myself included, do kill for fun. I hunt for recreation, as it is not absolutely required for my survival. (yet)

Even if Wolves did kill for fun, so what? We humans do too. That in itself is not a justification for killing wolves, anymore than the fact humans hunt is a justification for killing people.

 

[ronecol]

I can't bring myself to agree that wolves kill for fun. Maybe instinct, practice, or it's in their general nature. But "fun" ? Fun is a human concept. I don't beleive Wolves have fun, and I'm pretty sure they don't laugh and tell jokes around the campfire either.

Now humans on the otherhand, myself included, do kill for fun. I hunt for recreation, as it is not absolutely required for my survival. (yet)

Even if Wolves did kill for fun, so what? We humans do too. That in itself is not a justification for killing wolves, anymore than the fact humans hunt is a justification for killing people.

I guess you posted without reading the thread....

Ron

 

[Gormley Green]

I know that they killed that geophysics worker in Saskatchewan but overall I don't worry about them when I am in the bush.

Wolves are amazing animals. And geophysics guys are weird, and slow moving.

Normal people need to worry about getting attacked by wolves, I think the records support that.

 

[Gormley Green]

Also that slideshow sucks. WTF? Wolves are erradicating ungulates? Or wolves are just being wolves and eating ungulates to survive? Are hunters erradicating ungulates, or just hunting? Same diff. Propaganda for people with low IQ's.

 

[G P]

I guess I should point out that wolves will often return multiple times to the same kill to feed. They can only eat so much at a time. It's possible all those photos are taken in between feeding sessions.

 

[jwstewart]

I guess you posted without reading the thread....

Ron

No, I read the complete thread, I just disagree with you.

Wolves don't kill for fun or sport. Wolves don't have fun. Fun is a human thing. They are just Wolves, and are killers by nature, not for fun.

You like killing for fun, you said it yourself. You're trying to demonize Wolves to justify killing them for fun.

I say go ahead and kill them for fun, or for management. But let's not pretend they are anything other than a wild animal, ruled by instinct.

 

[ronecol]

Also that slideshow sucks. WTF? Wolves are erradicating ungulates? Or wolves are just being wolves and eating ungulates to survive? Are hunters erradicating ungulates, or just hunting? Same diff. Propaganda for people with low IQ's.

Can I respectfully suggest that before you make anymore uninformed posts that you take a few minutes and read the entire thread. You may find the views and opinions expressed by some of the more knowledgeable and experienced folks helpful in forming your own opinion(s).

Ron

 

[Gormley Green]

I think it was informed. I am 100% certain that, contrary to what the slideshow said, wolves are not systematically erradicating mountain ungulates anywhere. That is personification, i.e. they have some intent? They are animals. End of story.

Therefore, I think its propaganda for stupid people. Someone who sees and believes that has a new justification for hunting (poaching, shooting, etc.) wolves that is uninformed. Hunt wolves if you will, but the old 'wolves are our enemies' thing is so 19th century. Give me a break.

 

[ronecol]

No, I read the complete thread, I just disagree with you.

Wolves don't kill for fun or sport. Wolves don't have fun. Fun is a human thing. They are just Wolves, and are killers by nature, not for fun.

You like killing for fun, you said it yourself. You're trying to demonize Wolves to justify killing them for fun.

I say go ahead and kill them for fun, or for management. But let's not pretend they are anything other than a wild animal, ruled by instinct.

Well then you either didn't digest it or you're just playing on words. How would you describe the wolf behavior of killing hundreds of animals unnecessarily - practice for the next time they need to kill for food...really?

BTW "fun" is not a word that I used - mine was "sport". However, like I said you're just playing on words so pick another, i.e. amusement, entertainment, pleasure or instinct. It matters not to me which word you choose - it's the same unnecessary killing.

Another clarification for you. I hunt for a whole host of reasons and I can assure you like most hunters the "killing" is the least enjoyable part of it. And in the 55 plus years that I've been doing it there have been many occasions that I have passed on that part of it.

Ron

 

[david doyle]

A year ago I was up by Fox Creek, AB working in camp. There were some scientist staying there. They are there to study the woodland Caribou. They say the number one problem with the woodland caribou population is the wolves are killing them off. When they were up there they were trying a new program.

Wow that is simplistic. I gather that the opinion was not levied for a peer reviewed purpose? Pretty easy to blame a wolf if you are infringing on the Species at Risk Act.
Caribou rely on isolation in Non typical ungulate habitat for protection. It has worked for millenia. The trouble is that when we run roads, lines, SKI DOO trails etc into caribou wintering areas we allow the wolves access. In Northern BC alberta it is common to see tracks of packs travelling 30 kms or more in a straight stretch on man made corridors.

The wolves are not the problem the lack of proper caribou habitat is the problem. The persisitence of many populations is simply that ' persisitence' most herds I am familiar with are living on borrowed time.

Speaking of "herds" when we refer to a caribou herd it may well be 10-30 individuals spread out over 1000s of square kilometers. connect those individuals with easily traveled corridirs and you create an unfair advantage to the wolf.

Not much to be done about it. The decision to choose resources/jobs over a few caribou was made a long time ago and the damage is done. (schools/hospitals are expensive) That being said killing wolves to protect caribou is waste of time and energy.

If someone wants a nice pelt or wants to pay royalties to trap them I am all for it. Where I am at wolf season is very long and liberal and lots of people shoot at them despite that there are still lots of wolves, lobbying for a wolf kill is embarrassing as it wont have the desired effect with out utilizing very sketchy methods. If rifle and trap can't get rid of them what will be used?

 

[Gatehouse]

I can't bring myself to agree that wolves kill for fun. Maybe instinct, practice, or it's in their general nature. But "fun" ? Fun is a human concept. I don't beleive Wolves have fun, and I'm pretty sure they don't laugh and tell jokes around the campfire either.

Now humans on the otherhand, myself included, do kill for fun. I hunt for recreation, as it is not absolutely required for my survival. (yet)

Even if Wolves did kill for fun, so what? We humans do too. That in itself is not a justification for killing wolves, anymore than the fact humans hunt is a justification for killing people.

No, I read the complete thread, I just disagree with you.

Wolves don't kill for fun or sport. Wolves don't have fun. Fun is a human thing. They are just Wolves, and are killers by nature, not for fun.

You like killing for fun, you said it yourself. You're trying to demonize Wolves to justify killing them for fun.

I say go ahead and kill them for fun, or for management. But let's not pretend they are anything other than a wild animal, ruled by instinct.

Let's not call it "fun" anymore, since "fun" is a human concept. Lets call it something that a wolf enjoys doing.

If you are telling me that animals don't enjoy engaging in some activities, then I am going to say you don't know much about animals.

Why would a dog bring a stick and drop it at your feet so you can throw and he can fetch? Why does a bear slide down a steep snowy (or muddy) bank over and over? Why do deer chase each other around on a September morning? Why do wolves run and wrestle and play with each other?

And finally, why do wolves or domestic dogs chase down and kill multiple animals in a short time and not eat them? Sure, the chase is instinct to them, they don't' know "wrong" from "right" and they don't' know that humans generally disapprove of random killing for fun, but there is no way they don't enjoy themselves- Other wise they wouldn't do it once their belly was full.

 

[M12shooter]

Are not some isolated B.C. mountain caribou sub species in danger of over depredation by wolves? Gray wolves are now existing within 30 miles of Winnipeg.

 

[Gatehouse]

I think it was informed. I am 100% certain that, contrary to what the slideshow said, wolves are not systematically erradicating mountain ungulates anywhere. That is personification, i.e. they have some intent? They are animals. End of story.

Therefore, I think its propaganda for stupid people. Someone who sees and believes that has a new justification for hunting (poaching, shooting, etc.) wolves that is uninformed. Hunt wolves if you will, but the old 'wolves are our enemies' thing is so 19th century. Give me a break.

Wolves won't "systematically eradicate" ungulates, as that implies they know what the end result will be, which they don't. When wolves eradicate ungulate populations, they do it without knowing what they are doing, but the end result is the same.

They certainly use well planned hunting systems, though.

 

[Gatehouse]

Are not some isolated B.C. mountain caribou sub species in danger of over depredation by wolves? Gray wolves are now existing within 30 miles of Winnipeg.

Yes, they are. The reasons for the caribou population decline are many, including habitat loss, moose migration into the area, wolves following the moose, etc, etc but the wolves are the only thing that can really be controlled at this point.

 

[art.h]

If you feel that you can kill as a hunter and not allow nature to take its natural course then you are a selfish prick. This would be a private PM but you seem to be hiding behind options. Blaming predators for declinning game populations has been proved to be bull####e time and time again. CWD would probably be less a problem if there wqs enough predation to harvest the diseased and we compound the spread by not continuing the regular hunting season in areas of high concentration of CWD. If your fearful or just plain greedy get out of the harvest compete at the super market

 

[joe m]

Wow art....

You obviously feel some twisted connection to wolves. Do you see them as mythical creatures running around maintaining a perfect ballance in the wild?

 

[Gatehouse]

Are you directing this at me?

If you feel that you can kill as a hunter and not allow nature to take its natural course then you are a selfish prick.

Humans are a part of nature, don't' forget that. Humans have also decided that they prefer to see game populations managed on more evenly than just letting nature take it's course. Managaing wildlife in this manner attempts to keep populations of all creatures somewhat stable, while still allowing hunting opportunity and plenty of prey for predators.

This would be a private PM but you seem to be hiding behind options.

What is "hiding behind options?"

Blaming predators for declinning game populations has been proved to be bulls**te time and time again

Proven? In what way? The way "nature" often (but not always) works is

1. An increase of prey species.
2. Predator populations increase
3. Predators kill large amount of prey species
4. Prey population drops
5. Predators starve/move to new area
6.Predator population drops
7. Repeat

Somewhere in there is also habitat loss, vehicle collisions, hunter management, winter kill, etc etc.

Predators certainly can and do play a large role in declining ungulate populations, we have been seeing it in my neighborhood for the last few years. Conversely, when there is an effort to hunt/trap predators in an area, game populations increase. Left alone, wolves will continue the cycle of peaks and valleys in wildlife populations.

CWD would probably be less a problem if there wqs enough predation to harvest the diseased and we compound the spread by not continuing the regular hunting season in areas of high concentration of CWD.

No CWD around here, but wolves are not guaranteed to only take the infected animals, they prey upon all classes of animals,as stated before.

If your fearful or just plain greedy get out of the harvest compete at the super market

Where does fearful or greedy come up?