WSSM's.. Debunking the Myths

powder burner said:
They are a ploy to sell more rifles to the consumer. If it works then great, everybody could use more rifles. If more people buy them becuse of it, then our sport may regain the popularity of what it once was. I find that it targets the newbies who are not too sure of what they are and believe that they are the best thing out there. A starter rifle in 270 wssm? Maybe.

I am not going to jump on the wssm bandwagon because I already have rifles that will do what I need them to do.

If you want to buy one great. I am NOT telling you NOT to buy one.
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I agree with most of what you are saying burner... but you preface your statement by calling the WSSM's a ploy.
I find that choice of descriptions misleading at best and inflammatory at worst. Calling this technology a ploy infers that it is all a big lie meant to deceive us and that the hunting or shooting consumer is stupid enough to be deceived!
The facts are undeniable... they are more efficient, lighter, use less powder, and produce less recoil than their long case counterparts. They also can be more accurate and faster in many cases... I would not go so far as to call the development of the WSSM's a ploy.;)
I think that all these technologies have helped to advance the shooting sports in many ways... new powders... new bullets... new actions... new scopes and accessories.:cool:
I agree that the marketing is superfluous and the advertising exaggerated in many instances but this is true of any new product in any sport or business.:cool:
 
powder burner said:
They are a ploy to sell more rifles to the consumer. If it works then great, everybody could use more rifles. If more people buy them becuse of it, then our sport may regain the popularity of what it once was. I find that it targets the newbies who are not too sure of what they are and believe that they are the best thing out there. A starter rifle in 270 wssm? Maybe.

I am not going to jump on the wssm bandwagon because I already have rifles that will do what I need them to do.

If you want to buy one great. I am NOT telling you NOT to buy one.
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There are many of us that do not fit into the "newbie" category!:cool:
I did not get into the WSM and WSSM thing becuase of some ploy, marketing strategy or whatever else someone is going to tell me.
I got into them for my own reasons, same as some get into the 6BR, 6.5/284, or "other" categories!
Oh, waitaminit, that's me too! Please disregard this last post....
Cat
 
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The simple truth is that some of us here were into such cartridges as the wsms,stws,ultramags,etc, before they were even commercialized,so it had nothing to do with marketing ploys.However where the marketing was effective was with the newbies or those that did not have enough experience to see the marketing ploys for what they were.Many were taken in by the claims and tactics that the manufacturers used.But that is common with all marketing,not just with firearms and cartridges.
 
Yup, them new fangled 308's really are sump'in. :D

The point should be made though that at the introduction of the 308, there were many of the same arguements floating about.
High pressure, throat errosion, and on and on.
Still with us though ain't it?
Too bad about the 220 Swift. Largely killed by gun writers, and gossip.
 
catnthehatt said:
There are many of us that do not fit into the "newbie" category!:cool:
I did not get into the WSM and WSSM thing becuase of some ploy, marketing stragety or whatever else someone is going to tell me.
I got into them for my own reasons, same as some get into the 6BR, 6.5/284, or "other" categories!
t
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Exactly. I already had the means to kill everything on the planet long before the WSM's came out, and I knew it. ;)

I was not 'ployed':D
 
I will have to brush up on my grammar. It's not a ploy, but a marketing strategy to get the consumer to purchase rifles.


Remember that computer chip rifle a few years back? I would consider that a waste of money, but another marketing strategy to get consumers interested in buying rifles again.
 
Salty said:
I'm starting to warm up to these new fangled short case cartridges. I just bought a 308 :D :cool:
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Ha Ha Good One:p

I also am not a newbie at this. It took me till last summer to purchase a WSM and it wasn't until I held the Kimber 8400 in my hands that it convinced me that there was something truly different/advantageous to owning one. The market was full of WSM's but none really offered in my opinion a rifle that represented what a WSM was designe to be, a short, light and powerful outfit. The Win. was too heavy as far as I was concerned and the others like the A-Bolt and Rem's had short barrels, and didn't appeal to me anyway. There are other cartridges that have been introduce as of late like the 204 and the 6.8 and it will be the buyers that will determine their fate as it always has been, eventually the pendulum swings the other way no matter what the markating hype says. If the package is well done and practical and affordable it should survive, on the short term anyway.
bigbull
 
The next one that hasn't come to the masses too much yet, is not only short fat sharp shouldered cases but ones with curved shaped shoulders:D :D Can't wait for the naysay'n on that one....

WTF I'll start the arguement before its introduced. The curvature of the shoulders better deflects the energy of powder yet to be burned towards a potential unburned powder plug. And other #### too. This will be the real deal real soon :)
 
powder burner said:
the 308 is short enough for me and gets the job done good enough.
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Dude :eek: I was just ready to wail on you for going so hard against the wsm family. But you soffened your post :( Oil well ..

BTW while we're on the subject nothing touches the 270 Weatherby :D
 
SuperCub said:
Sure they have a place, but I'm sayin the most of the shots made are under 200yds and all that new "advantage" goes to waste
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SC,

What you see as "wasted advantage" I see as "potential".
 
Why not? said:
You are so right on that one! :cool:

None of the Wizzums even come close to 130s at over 3500, or 150s at 3200 fps.

Ted
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Ted you must be talking about your particular gun with a particular reloads... in most of the published Data the WSM equals the Weatherby with 24 inch test barrels... http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/270winshortmag.php
I am not deneying you can heat up a 270 Weatherby and get extreme velocities... but you can also heat up a Short mag and put a 26 inch barrel on it too.
3500 fps is a pretty fast 130gr...even for a 270WTBY:eek:
 
Not that I want to add fuel to the fire but way back in the day I used to get 3450 fps with 130s and 3240 fps with 150s. This was with plain old IMR 4350. I would assume with the new powders you should be able to improve on this. Of the short mags I think the 270 makes the most sense.
 
My 270 Wby has a 24" Douglas barrel. Re22, H450 and H4831 all get those velocities.

The IMR website also shows the same using IMR 7828.

http://www.imrpowder.com/data/rifle/270weathmag.php

The rifle has around 700 rounds down the tube and will still shoot very close to an inch on my bad days. :D

I discard cases after five to six reloads even though the primer pockets are still tight. It is a hunting rifle. :cool:

Ted
 
I haven't got to reloading my 270 wby yet, but with factory 130 grain ammo (a great deal on old stuff that I bought for the brass) I get 3360 ft/s. And my rifle has a 22" barrel! :)
 
Here's a question for the short, fat round crowd:

What happens to mag capacity when you stuff a short fat round into a short action such as the Remmy 700 DMR? I'm not being sarcastic, I really don;t know. Do they make the mags fatter and lower to keep the round count, or like an H&H chamgering, do you just live with fewer rounds?

For some people, keeping 5 in the gun might be as important, or even more so, than any small performance gain - assuming the WSSM and WSM rifles chamber less than 5?
 
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