WTF! factory ammo + new rifle

ultimate_monkey said:
this was all with in 15 min, and nothing else weather, shooting position, etc etc changed
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How many rounds exactly did you shoot within this time frame? Did you let the barrel cool??
Your barrel could have simply heated up and was shooting inconsistent rounds. After all, it's simply a weatherby firing cheap ammunition. Throwing barrel heat into the latter two variables will only make things worse.
 
How many shots within 15min and is your barrel a sporter or heavy? If you don't have a heavy barrel and you were consecutively shooting without letting the barrel cool enough, that might explain the consistently widening groups. I've noticed a huge difference between the Savage 10FP (heavy barrel) and the ruger compact (light barrel) that I shot. The Savage barrel took forever to heat and start spreading shots but the Ruger could only go maybe 3-4 shots max before needing to cool (otherwise the groups opened up quite a bit).

"this was all with in 15 min, and nothing else weather, shooting position, etc etc changed"

ultimate_monkey said:
To some of you thanks for the input, and for others, i know how to shoot ;) i spend my time at the range rather then at the comp posting on forums

bases and rings are all tight and every thing i do gets blue lock tight.. Im not expecting match results with sub par ammo.like i said in my original post i was just looking to get the rifle sited into the general area. so im not surprised by the variation in my groupings.. i didnt think of it being the scope it self, since its been out of the box for 2 days and hasnt taken any sort of hit, but will throw a different scope on tomorrow and check to make sure the scopes not the problem..

i have a feeling my rushed rambling made the problem out to seem different then it is.. so heres the simple version

spend 1/2 of yesterday and all this morning getting adequate groups with store bought ammo.

change ammo brands for 5 shots, groups double in size

change back to original ammo, cant even hit paper

clean gun, groups come back to a constant 5"

this was all with in 15 min, and nothing else weather, shooting position, etc etc changed
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Glock4ever said:
I am finding it hard to believe that you are expecting to shoot sub MOA with AE 223 ammo. 5" at 200 yds is a little bit over 2 MOA for AE that isn't too bad. Doesn't sound like the scope is out - it sounds like your expectations are though. I would still check your scope but 55 grain FMJ isn't the most reliable ammunition for measuring group sizes with. It can on occasion shoot sub-MOA but this stuff isn't manufactured to any match tolerances. Don't believe me? Take 5 random rounds from the same lot and pull the bullets, you may be a bit surprised how much variation there is with just the bullets let alone the powder and cases themselves. If I could get 55 grain AE to shoot under 1 MOA consistently I wouldn't bother reloading... just my 2 cents.
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if you read my posts in this thread i was shooing 2" groups with AE all morning, but s**t hit the fan when i tried a different ammo then went back... i dont doubt there will be huge variation in factory loads, i know for a fact there is, its why i got into reloading...


any who, for who ever suggested action screws +1 for you, as i was sitting here cleaning it the action seemed tight, but the front action screw tightened almost a full 3 turns :eek: yup some times im an idiot haha, so hopfully this is just a bunch of small things makeing one big problem and not just one big problem


miykael - it would be 9 shots within the 15 min, 3 sets of 3, AE , winchester , AE agian, then soped to clean and back to AE ammo
 
ultimate_monkey said:
any who, for who ever suggested action screws +1 for you, as i was sitting here cleaning it the action seemed tight, but the front action screw tightened almost a full 3 turns :eek:
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I will bet your problem is solved. But again I suggest you take the action right out of the stock and make sure it is clean and dry between the action and stock.
 
My TC .223 barrel loves AE 55gr HPBT's. 1 ragged hole for 5 shots @ 100yds. The Weatherby I had before the TC shot them OK but not great, 1.5" @ 100. I would completely disassemble the gun and put it back together tightly including rings, bases and scope and try again. On my Weatherby I had a similar experience, it turned out the front base screws were a hair long and were bottoming out before tightening the base totally. It felt tight to my fingers but it was moving under recoil. It took a bit to figure it out. Also have you had a good look down the bore since shooting and cleaning?

Kim
 
Glock4ever said:
I did read your post. Sorry if I find it hard to believe that you were shooting 1 MOA "all morning" with AE at 200 yards.
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yeah i didnt beleive it either but lieing on a forum wont help me solve my problem, if any thing it would just lead me in the wrong direction...


so every thing has been dissembled, cleaned/wiped off, properly lubed and reassembled again with locktight... off to the range in an hour or so and see what happens, unfortunatly the temp is about 7* colder then it was yesterday....
 
Actually its probably because you didn't break it in properly.Shoot a shot then clean it.Do that for the first hundred rounds.Then move to 3 round groups and clean after every three and do that for 100 shots.Then you should be pretty close to broken in.
 
your right i have no idea what im doin, i blast rounds down range untill my barrel will cook a steak, and then i blast 100 more just to make sure that its good and fukt,,

Any way it turns out it was the scope, get to the range today and get some nice grouping right off the bat at 200yds with Amarican eagle ammo, 1 group of 3 and about 1.25moa then 2 groups of 3 at sub 1moa. the group left was shot first, then right, then top.

DSCN0631.jpg


adjusted my windage settings and every thing goes out the pooper again... then i notice then the windage turret has a bout 3/32" wobble in it when its spun... so long story short... the fact it happened when i changed ammo was more or less a fluke, the slightly loose action screw didnt help any and the rifles getting a new scope...

glad it turned out to be a simple fix. tho a bit irritating.. on the plus side i had a good reason to go to shooting 3 days in a row :D
 
Glock4ever said:
You sure have a lot of attitude for somebody who comes on here and asks for help. Regardless, this is what I think of your sub-MOA groups. Good luck with your rifle and have a Happy New Year.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=279218
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i give what i get, i dont need to be told that i dont know what im doin when im looking for a little more experienced incite on a problem.. im just not one to take attitude based on assumptions made due to a low post count, for a group of people that are all involved in an activity thats slowly being outlawed one would think there would be more willingness to ask a question then to make an assumption

interesting link, i understand that it could be "cheating" to measure it how i have with having each group separate from each other.. i just did it this way so i could keep track of all my shots easier.. that being said, if i were to cut out each circle and place them over top of each other the 2 furthest shots from each other (left group low and right group high) would still be just over 1.5MOA at 200yds with factory ammo, which i think is pretty decent for factory ammo. any who thanks every one for the input and suggestions, next time out i will make a few 10 shot groups with the same ammo, after i get the new scoped sited in and see how it turns out!

happy new years every one!
 
Thanks Glock, I'm still coming up to speed on shooting, and that page you sent has some pretty good thoughts on it. The more articles I read, the better. With a spotting scope, I'll try running longer strings (I had been grasping at straws with 3-round groups, sometimes two flyers in a group lol! :)
 
Keeping track of your shots is a good idea. Superimpose all your holes onto the same point of aim and take another look at the total grouping. Hardly sub-MOA. Not trying to be an ass here, just passing on some experience. I will shoot 10+ round groups to get a good idea of what a rifle can do. Some times problems are associated with scopes/rifles/bullets other times it is just a bad understanding of what a person's rifle will normally do. Here is a target at 100 yards from my 22 Hornet.

PICT1128.jpg


I fired a total of 26 shots at this target over a period of 40 mins. Hardly a sub-MOA rifle. However within that grouping is a pile of holes that are really close together. If I were to cherry pick the best ones and dismiss the bad ones as flyers I could say that this is a .25 MOA, .5 MOA, 1 MOA, or 2 MOA rifle. Depending on how you choose to look at it. Now look at your own target - assuming the same point of aim for all three targets is centre of the red circle for each group, you have POI that are 1" low on the centre and a few that are high. Combine them all together and that is easily over 2.5" for just the second and last target. Assuming you didn't adjust your POA, I can't even comfortably assume where a majority of your shots will land as you have 3 that land almost 1" and 5 that land almost 1" low - you haven't fired enough shots to be sure. If you look at my hornet target you know that most of the shots are about 1" high and a little bit right. A true MOA rifle will shoot to POA all of the shots fired not just some. Just some food for thought.
 
I'm glad you solved the problem and it was the scope, mostly. What scope did you use, just curious. I have had two scopes in my life that went kaput, one by having the windage adjustment internals go on me and the other the elevation ones. And there were higher end scopes. Fortunately, both were fixed for free.
 
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