- Location
- Manitoulin Island
In the online video "the making of the Battle of Britain", the Texans who flew are shown, and the owner of the warbirds explains how they came to buy the ME-109's and made the deal that they got to fly in the filming.
WWII War Birds - pics and video
- Thread starter Sharps '63
- Start date
BF-109 was powered by Daimler-Benz engines.
The BMW was usually installed in the other beast:
FW-190
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Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
Wikipedia tells us there remain 28 FW190's in the world. Only one still flies, and that's the FHC's 151227, pictured above (thanks, jaws - nice pic).
The FlugWerke aircraft - modern reproductions - are close enough to the originals that the manufacturer says they're a "continuation of the production" rather than a repro. He's even issued them consecutive Werknummer based on the last ones manufactured during the war. More info here, assuming your German is better than mine:
http://www.flugwerk.de/html/index.php
The Turks were among a very few nations that flew the FW190 post-war:
...and, of course, the French:
...who probably did it just to piss off the "maudit boche". And it appears at least one made if all the way to Japan a bit earlier:
The FlugWerke aircraft - modern reproductions - are close enough to the originals that the manufacturer says they're a "continuation of the production" rather than a repro. He's even issued them consecutive Werknummer based on the last ones manufactured during the war. More info here, assuming your German is better than mine:
http://www.flugwerk.de/html/index.php
The Turks were among a very few nations that flew the FW190 post-war:
...and, of course, the French:
...who probably did it just to piss off the "maudit boche". And it appears at least one made if all the way to Japan a bit earlier:
Lot of GERMANS in the FFL too.
"Forgotten German veterans of France's Vietnam war
02 May 2004
By James Mackenzie
WEINHEIM AN DER BERGSTRASSE, Germany, May 2 (*******) - Four years after the end of World War Two, while much of Germany still lay in ruins, 17-year-old Egon Pohl left his home to join the Foreign Legion and France's war in Vietnam.
"It was adventure and a new home," said Pohl, who lied about his age to join the elite French force along with thousands of others trying to escape the chaos and rubble of post-war Germany.
An estimated 35,000 Germans served during the eight-year conflict that ended 50 years ago this week when a disastrous defeat at the battle of Dien Bien Phu on May 7, 1954 brought about the fall of France's colonial empire in Indochina.
Many were combat veterans from the army or SS members recruited straight from prisoner of war camps after Germany's defeat.
But many uprooted and disoriented younger men whose homes and family had been lost were also attracted by the promise of adventure and a new start as well as good food and pay.
"I came back from Russia and had nowhere else to go," said Heinz Kaiser, whose parents had both been killed in the war and who joined the Legion in 1953 after his home in the former eastern German region of Silesia was absorbed into Poland.
Highly regarded by the French for their discipline and bravery, Germans made up over half the Foreign Legion units that bore much of the heaviest fighting against the communist Viet Minh forces of Ho Chi Minh.
In a brutal, but now little-known war in which untold numbers of Vietnamese died, more than 10,000 Legionnaires were killed, out of about 70,000 who fought as France battled to keep possessions the Legion had helped conquer from 1883.
On a tranquil spring evening in south Germany, Kaiser, Pohl and others like Manfred Laubscher, who won one of France's top decorations, the Medaille Militaire, in a paratrooper battalion or Rudolf Schneider, who won the same medal as a sergeant in a mainly Vietnamese infantry unit, look back with former comrades.
They recall manning remote bush forts far from the elegant colonial capital Hanoi or patrolling paddy fields and elephant grass where American troops fought more than a decade later.
But direct sightings of their elusive enemy were scarce.
"We only really saw them when they wanted," said Wilhelm Roessler, who spent much of his service in the jungles of Laos.
Exceptions were battles like Dien Bien Phu, where 1,600 Germans took part in an epic defeat masterminded by Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap that became known as France's Stalingrad.
Giap led the Viet Minh, a coalition of communists and nationalists, in the legendary siege of Colonel Christian de Castries's forces in the town of Dien Bien Phu, about 490 km (300 miles) northwest of Hanoi.
FEROCIOUS DISCIPLINE, POWDERED WINE
Serving alongside French and Vietnamese units and Algerian, Moroccan or Senegalese troops from France's colonial empire, the Legion was the backbone of a multinational army fighting a distant war that raised little enthusiasm in a war-weary France.
For their part, the Germans and their Italian, Spanish or eastern European colleagues, felt their main attachment to the Legion rather than to France and few made much effort to speak any other language than German.
"I learned some French, but only because I was interested," said Pohl. Otherwise, most learned only the main French words of command, took their orders from German sergeants and sang German marching songs as they tramped along the dusty roads.
Despite this, the Legion was one of the most decorated units in the French army, its tradition upheld by ferocious discipline and ruthless punishment for those who failed to keep up.
But it also provided strong comradeship and an alternative family as well as stereotypically French comforts such as good food and limitless quantities of wine, even supplied in concentrated or powdered form when troops were in the field.
"We had the right to wine as part of our contract," said Heinrich Back, who served in the later Algerian war and who now heads an "Amicale" or veterans' association in Mannheim.
But despite the strong cohesion of the Legion, a small number of Germans did desert the French to join the Viet Minh and two former German Legionnaires even became top officials in the Viet Minh's propaganda and intelligence services.
AMBIGUITY
Although joining a foreign army was frowned on in Germany, post-war governments could not risk angering France by stopping it outright and there was no shortage of recruits for Indochina.
"The Legion always gets recruits from countries which aren't doing well economically," Back said.
While many saw Legionnaires as irresponsible adventurers, they exerted a strong fascination in the conformist Germany of the 1950s, reflected in the huge success of the sentimental song "Der Legionaer", which spent weeks in the charts in 1958.
However once Germany's "Economic Miracle" brought prosperity in the 1960s, the supply of German recruits dried up and today, only a handful serve in the much-reduced Legion, although there are over 40 veterans' associations in Germany.
Given the insistence in both Paris and Berlin on the ever closer defence ties between the two countries, there is an irony to the fact that so little attention is paid to the thousands of Germans who fought in France's colonial wars.
"We're treated like emperors when we go to France but in Germany, people of our generation still think we're hoodlums," said Wolfgang Fluegge, who joined the Legion in 1954.
But none of the men regrets his time in the Legion. "You won't find any Legionnaire who regrets it," they said."
"Forgotten German veterans of France's Vietnam war
02 May 2004
By James Mackenzie
WEINHEIM AN DER BERGSTRASSE, Germany, May 2 (*******) - Four years after the end of World War Two, while much of Germany still lay in ruins, 17-year-old Egon Pohl left his home to join the Foreign Legion and France's war in Vietnam.
"It was adventure and a new home," said Pohl, who lied about his age to join the elite French force along with thousands of others trying to escape the chaos and rubble of post-war Germany.
An estimated 35,000 Germans served during the eight-year conflict that ended 50 years ago this week when a disastrous defeat at the battle of Dien Bien Phu on May 7, 1954 brought about the fall of France's colonial empire in Indochina.
Many were combat veterans from the army or SS members recruited straight from prisoner of war camps after Germany's defeat.
But many uprooted and disoriented younger men whose homes and family had been lost were also attracted by the promise of adventure and a new start as well as good food and pay.
"I came back from Russia and had nowhere else to go," said Heinz Kaiser, whose parents had both been killed in the war and who joined the Legion in 1953 after his home in the former eastern German region of Silesia was absorbed into Poland.
Highly regarded by the French for their discipline and bravery, Germans made up over half the Foreign Legion units that bore much of the heaviest fighting against the communist Viet Minh forces of Ho Chi Minh.
In a brutal, but now little-known war in which untold numbers of Vietnamese died, more than 10,000 Legionnaires were killed, out of about 70,000 who fought as France battled to keep possessions the Legion had helped conquer from 1883.
On a tranquil spring evening in south Germany, Kaiser, Pohl and others like Manfred Laubscher, who won one of France's top decorations, the Medaille Militaire, in a paratrooper battalion or Rudolf Schneider, who won the same medal as a sergeant in a mainly Vietnamese infantry unit, look back with former comrades.
They recall manning remote bush forts far from the elegant colonial capital Hanoi or patrolling paddy fields and elephant grass where American troops fought more than a decade later.
But direct sightings of their elusive enemy were scarce.
"We only really saw them when they wanted," said Wilhelm Roessler, who spent much of his service in the jungles of Laos.
Exceptions were battles like Dien Bien Phu, where 1,600 Germans took part in an epic defeat masterminded by Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap that became known as France's Stalingrad.
Giap led the Viet Minh, a coalition of communists and nationalists, in the legendary siege of Colonel Christian de Castries's forces in the town of Dien Bien Phu, about 490 km (300 miles) northwest of Hanoi.
FEROCIOUS DISCIPLINE, POWDERED WINE
Serving alongside French and Vietnamese units and Algerian, Moroccan or Senegalese troops from France's colonial empire, the Legion was the backbone of a multinational army fighting a distant war that raised little enthusiasm in a war-weary France.
For their part, the Germans and their Italian, Spanish or eastern European colleagues, felt their main attachment to the Legion rather than to France and few made much effort to speak any other language than German.
"I learned some French, but only because I was interested," said Pohl. Otherwise, most learned only the main French words of command, took their orders from German sergeants and sang German marching songs as they tramped along the dusty roads.
Despite this, the Legion was one of the most decorated units in the French army, its tradition upheld by ferocious discipline and ruthless punishment for those who failed to keep up.
But it also provided strong comradeship and an alternative family as well as stereotypically French comforts such as good food and limitless quantities of wine, even supplied in concentrated or powdered form when troops were in the field.
"We had the right to wine as part of our contract," said Heinrich Back, who served in the later Algerian war and who now heads an "Amicale" or veterans' association in Mannheim.
But despite the strong cohesion of the Legion, a small number of Germans did desert the French to join the Viet Minh and two former German Legionnaires even became top officials in the Viet Minh's propaganda and intelligence services.
AMBIGUITY
Although joining a foreign army was frowned on in Germany, post-war governments could not risk angering France by stopping it outright and there was no shortage of recruits for Indochina.
"The Legion always gets recruits from countries which aren't doing well economically," Back said.
While many saw Legionnaires as irresponsible adventurers, they exerted a strong fascination in the conformist Germany of the 1950s, reflected in the huge success of the sentimental song "Der Legionaer", which spent weeks in the charts in 1958.
However once Germany's "Economic Miracle" brought prosperity in the 1960s, the supply of German recruits dried up and today, only a handful serve in the much-reduced Legion, although there are over 40 veterans' associations in Germany.
Given the insistence in both Paris and Berlin on the ever closer defence ties between the two countries, there is an irony to the fact that so little attention is paid to the thousands of Germans who fought in France's colonial wars.
"We're treated like emperors when we go to France but in Germany, people of our generation still think we're hoodlums," said Wolfgang Fluegge, who joined the Legion in 1954.
But none of the men regrets his time in the Legion. "You won't find any Legionnaire who regrets it," they said."
Makes perfect sense as the bulk of the Legion was comprised of ex-Wehrmacht and SS soldiers post-war and up to the fall of Dien Bien Phu and the end of French Indo China.
After the French divested themselves of their African Colonies, the usual chaos resulted. The government of Chad petitioned the French for aid in quelling the unrest and the Legion was sent in. It took them just three weeks to pacify the country.
I was serving in Germany at the time and it caused quite a brouhaha when "Der Stern" and "Der Spiegel" newsmagazines published pics of the "interrogation" of Chadian rebels.
An individual was chosen at random, feet and hands tied, and he was hoisted over a roaring fire, slowly lowered until he died. Then a second individual was chosen for a repeat performance. Up to this point, no questions had been asked. By the time the third individual was selected, he was spilling his guts with intel on the rebel movement.
It was an issue because of the high number of Germans serving in the Legion. The French made no apologies, citing the number of deaths at rebel hands and the lives saved by the swift put down of the insurrection.
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Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
Here's a nice colour shot of what I believe to be the most beautiful aircraft ever built, the Lockheed Constellation:
Known as the XC-69, the USAAC (later USAF) went on to use the Connie through the Vietnam war.
What a stunning thing. Say what you will about poor old OCD-affected Howard Hughes - the guy had an incredible eye for beauty. Hell, he also created the Hughes Racer...
...and the XF-11, which he flew into a golf course, causing injuries that led to serious drug abuse, and finally the 9th floor of the Fabulous Desert Inn casino in Las Vegas Nevada, saving jars of his own urine and wearing kleenex boxes on his feet:
Pretty crazy, but folks define genius as "seeing things others don't." When you're crazy, they call that "hallucinations". Sometimes it's hard to know the difference.
Known as the XC-69, the USAAC (later USAF) went on to use the Connie through the Vietnam war.
What a stunning thing. Say what you will about poor old OCD-affected Howard Hughes - the guy had an incredible eye for beauty. Hell, he also created the Hughes Racer...
...and the XF-11, which he flew into a golf course, causing injuries that led to serious drug abuse, and finally the 9th floor of the Fabulous Desert Inn casino in Las Vegas Nevada, saving jars of his own urine and wearing kleenex boxes on his feet:
Pretty crazy, but folks define genius as "seeing things others don't." When you're crazy, they call that "hallucinations". Sometimes it's hard to know the difference.
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Yup-that's Lockheed Vega.I have never seen photo of one in military colors.
She sure looks strange when compared to flashy pre-war civilian clothes
According to Wiki there were 3 of them in military.
Just 3?I guess with other military transports flaying about on regular bases there wasn't much use for old Vega.
She sure looks strange when compared to flashy pre-war civilian clothes
According to Wiki there were 3 of them in military.
Just 3?I guess with other military transports flaying about on regular bases there wasn't much use for old Vega.
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
I've only ever set foot in one: this one, in fact, at the Planes of Fame museum in Valle, AZ, just south of the Grand Canyon:
MacArthur's personal ride. Quite the old bird.
MacArthur's personal ride. Quite the old bird.
The Connie and Super Connie were the flagship aircraft of many carriers over the Atlantic route for many years. Service was great and had to be due to the long flight time.
I flew to Dusseldorf, Germany in the late 60's on a Yukon, Canadair's piston engine version of the turbo-powered Bristol Britannia. It was a dependent's flight, wives and kids joining their husbands newly posted to Germany. Saying that the aircraft was packed would be an understatement. One woman had three kids and I was one of several single soldiers who found themselves with a whining two or three year old in his lap to give the mother a break.
I balked and was informed by female Sgt. cabin attendant that it wasn't a request. I consented on the condition that I be allowed to get up and stretch my legs after my stint as a surrogate father.
When I lived in Gander in the 50's, it was the North American exit/entry for trans-Atlantic traffic. Most planes were Super Connies and DC7s, with a smattering of C46, C47, C54 and North Stars. They would to a full run up on each engine, with magneto checks, before take off. At the time I was able to identify most a/c by engine noise and by exhaust flame pattern.
The North Star was very distinctive, being super charged instead of turbocharged.
Every once in awhile Max Conrad would come through, ferrying a little Piper to Europe. Somewhere in my albums I have a picture of him parking his plane beside a Connie.
The North Star was very distinctive, being super charged instead of turbocharged.
Every once in awhile Max Conrad would come through, ferrying a little Piper to Europe. Somewhere in my albums I have a picture of him parking his plane beside a Connie.
Why just look at them when you can buy one?
What was that about men and boys and the price of their toys.
This is the place to go to buy a Spitfire, ME109, FW 190D, P38, Hurricane or P51 ;
http://www.platinumfighters.com/#!spitfire-mh415/c12uh
They sold most of the 109's but there's still a Gustav available.
What was that about men and boys and the price of their toys.
This is the place to go to buy a Spitfire, ME109, FW 190D, P38, Hurricane or P51 ;
http://www.platinumfighters.com/#!spitfire-mh415/c12uh
They sold most of the 109's but there's still a Gustav available.
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
Dang - look at this:
http://www.platinumfighters.com/#!focke-wulf-fw-190d-9/c129j
$650K! A steal! All I need to do is sell 40 or 50 kidneys and I'm good-to-go.
Any volunteers?
http://www.platinumfighters.com/#!focke-wulf-fw-190d-9/c129j
$650K! A steal! All I need to do is sell 40 or 50 kidneys and I'm good-to-go.
Any volunteers?
Dang - look at this:
http://www.platinumfighters.com/#!focke-wulf-fw-190d-9/c129j
$650K! A steal! All I need to do is sell 40 or 50 kidneys and I'm good-to-go.
Any volunteers?
That logo on the rudder of that 'longnose' .... is that a PC scrambling of the swastika?
Donny Fenn1
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Kootenays
some countries don't allow the display of the hackenkreuz so you'll see things like that or a black square/diamond...
scale model kits from Germany decals have similar setups
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
Yeah, the 190D is currently in Germany, where display of Der Hackenkreuz is illegal. Get her here and 5 minutes with a roll of electrician's tape would fix it.
I thought this was the very last D-model 190 in existence:
http://www.flyingheritage.com/TemplatePlane.aspx?contentId=17
I thought this was the very last D-model 190 in existence:
http://www.flyingheritage.com/TemplatePlane.aspx?contentId=17
