XCR Opinions

i admit if AR's were non, i most likely would have bought one instead due to pricing and that alone. I honestly do despise the charging handle of AR's but at the price I could live with that annoyance and have more money for other improvements and deal with any other issues that came along with it but on the flip side I spent a pile of money on my xcr and it runs circles around all of my pals AR's in terms of reliability. I havent gone shooting with any of them though since I hate ranges and prefer to take my guns where they were designed for...the bush, but when he hands me a brand new AR and calls it a piece of sh*t, Ill take his word for it. Like I said, he has 6, only 2 work well enough to leave the safe and he says he wouldnt count on any of them to protect himself, hed grab his sl8.
 
blaxsun said:
In fact, manufacturers such as HK, Knight, LWRC, etc. are probably producing some of the most innovative AR designs out there right now.
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Don't forget, Lewis Machine & Tool, MRP is ######! ;)

fuzzynuts54 said:
I honestly do despise the charging handle of AR's but at the price I could live with that annoyance
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I think you over exaggerate the charging handle on the AR. I went to the range last weekend and put about 300 rounds through mine and I only pulled the charging handle once. I don't see how pulling the charging handle once is annoying, in fact besides pulling the trigger, pulling the CH is my favorite part, lol I love the sound it makes when I release the gun into battery... sometimes I have to tape "it" down when i go shooting... :p
 
because I dont go to the range, I get in and out of trucks, on and off quads. The xcr makes a similar sound but it doesnt require me to fumble the gun in an awkward way. trigger hand stays right where it should be, eyes dont have to leave the sights. Likewise if we're talking bolt release, I can stay zeroed on my target, touch off the bolt relese with trigger finger without adjusting my grip, you can too but not with a factory bolt release.
 
im not trying to start a urine drinking contest, I just simply prefer my xcr for my intended uses, to each their own, and each has its flaws. The AR has had decades to get itself sorted out so I think the xcr is doing quite well considering its age. I am tired of all the bolt falling out bs though. Its a simple efing fix that any 10 year old kid can fix PERMANENTLY in 5 minutes with the same tools he uses to work on his bicycle. There are very few issues with any xcr made in the last 12 months. Ohh its front heavy... grow some friggin muscles pooooosy.
 
fuzzynuts54 said:
im not trying to start a urine drinking contest, I just simply prefer my xcr for my intended uses, to each their own, and each has its flaws. The AR has had decades to get itself sorted out so I think the xcr is doing quite well considering its age. I am tired of all the bolt falling out bs though. Its a simple efing fix that any 10 year old kid can fix PERMANENTLY in 5 minutes with the same tools he uses to work on his bicycle. There are very few issues with any xcr made in the last 12 months. Ohh its front heavy... grow some friggin muscles pooooosy.
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That was my thoughts exactly.
Most of the haters are not owners, just sh!t disturbers.:D
 
fuzzynuts54 said:
because I dont go to the range, I get in and out of trucks, on and off quads. The xcr makes a similar sound but it doesnt require me to fumble the gun in an awkward way. trigger hand stays right where it should be, eyes dont have to leave the sights. Likewise if we're talking bolt release, I can stay zeroed on my target, touch off the bolt relese with trigger finger without adjusting my grip, you can too but not with a factory bolt release.
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Yes makes sense, but again with the AR you could #### it once and use the bolt catch to hold the bolt open. Then drop the bolt when on target. Also I use my left hand to #### the CH so trigger hand stays where it's supposed to be.

I guess for your application it's pointless to argue the ergos, because I can't plow deer with mine. :mad: So I guess we'll leave it there. ;)

:cheers:
 
I dont know why Paul is in such a huff, reading through this thread I would say all answers in regards to the XCR (good or bad) have been both logical and respectful.
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There's the big problem. Calm, logical discussion is meet with disproportionate "defense" by a select few tossing around the "hater" term.
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You would like to pretend that every comment you make happens in a vaccum. It doesn't. When EVERY thread involving the XCR gets this sort of stalking treatment, it moves from mildly annoying to full out pissing off. We get it, you love your AR180B and your AR. Can we talk about the XCR without your BS for once?

1) Lack of hard evidence proving it quality, although CGN is a great resource for information there are many more out there supporting the lack of quality compared to other products..
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This is only because some people are louder in condemnation than those who are happy enjoying their XCR's. A Canadian won the IPSC nationals with the XCR. Mine shoots very, very good. Camp Cook takes his hunting. There are youtube videos of a cop using his with mud and water in the action. Its a darn good, reliable rifle, despite the lies from the haters.

2)when I held one it felt like poop in my hand
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Ergonomics are a personal thing, so I have absolutely no objection to this point (except that I disagree).

3) I read a post from Mr. Robinson about his customer service policies and was less then impressed.
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I can tell you from actually dealing with their customer service people (I lost a part while cleaning it, which they replaced for free), that they have excellent customer service. The problem Mr. Robinson had was with the haters calling up and harrassing his people. I'd have choice words too.
 
I wouldn't necessarily describe the AR design as 'poor' but rather, dated. The fact that you can still customize the AR to the degree possible to overcome these 'design choices' is in fact a testament to the original design itself. In fact, manufacturers such as HK, Knight, LWRC, etc. are probably producing some of the most innovative AR designs out there right now.
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I was trying to be as charitable as possible because unlike some of the AR fanbois in this thread, I think the AR is a great rifle. However, you have to question why the rifle was designed to operate by direct impingement rather than by piston. Its not like piston rifles were not around when it was being designed. Hell, the russians made the AK with a piston system, and the russians aren't exactly engineering geniuses (hello Chernobyl). A lot of the early teething problems of the AR were a direct result of that design choice.

Now, a lot of newer AR's are designed to be piston driven, a good change, but it doesn't change the fact that the original design choice was not the ideal one.

People like ArmedSask will point to all sorts of percieved flaws with the XCR, most of which no longer exist either, but that doesn't stop them repeating them.
 
Paul Morrison said:
You would like to pretend that every comment you make happens in a vaccum. It doesn't. When EVERY thread involving the XCR gets this sort of stalking treatment, it moves from mildly annoying to full out pissing off. We get it, you love your AR180B and your AR. Can we talk about the XCR without your BS for once?
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I've never owned an AR15. I have owned an XCR.

I've documented my issues and opinions of it, backed up with my reasons for those views. I have never been anything but reasonable in these threads. It's you who constantly gets defensive and makes it personal. I bring up the AR180B because some might think I defend it as blindly as you defend the XCR, I merely want to make it known that is not the case.

As for posting in every thread, maybe you've noticed me posting in many other threads on this forum. I post in threads which I have content to add. That's the entire point. Having owned an XCR, I would think that qualifies me to post my opinions when asked.
 
Paul Morrison said:
I was trying to be as charitable as possible because unlike some of the AR fanbois in this thread, I think the AR is a great rifle. However, you have to question why the rifle was designed to operate by direct impingement rather than by piston... Now, a lot of newer AR's are designed to be piston driven, a good change, but it doesn't change the fact that the original design choice was not the ideal one.
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I can only speculate that cost may have been one factor; I'm sure there were others. After all, it took quite a few years for piston ARs to materialize - and they are more expensive than their DI equivalents.

Paul Morrison said:
People like ArmedSask will point to all sorts of percieved flaws with the XCR, most of which no longer exist either, but that doesn't stop them repeating them.
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I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that XCR owners may be a tad more sensitive than most... The shortcomings of both the Tavor (which the OP went with) and AR are generally acknowledged. Just something to consider.
 
I just dont like the access to cleaning on the Tavor. Other then that its a great rifle. Lets talk about the tavor and AR's a bit more shall we.
Why people feel the need to bring in every other fvcking rifle out there in a XCR thread is beyond my reason. Maybe its just me.
How about we post facts, and problems, and how to solve these "problems" about XCR's, instead of constantly dragging in every other rifle.
If someone wants to boast how fvcking great their ar180, do it in another thread.
Sorry for the rant but, some here in the thread want to learn about their XCR.
Nuff said.
 
Paul Morrison said:
What the manual says is that if you remove the brass deflector you MAY loctite it when replacing it. If doing so, you are instructed to use a particular type.

As for the hater characterization, there is no other conclusion which explains the level of vitriol. There are literally hundreds of AR-15 threads. You would have to look long and hard to find threads expressing anywhere near the level of 'criticism' faced by the XCR in even ONE of those threads. This is despite the fact that the AR actually has quite a few design choices which can best be charitably described as poor. Moreover, the amount of money spent customizing AR's to overcome those design choices are never described in terms of 'flaws' with the original rifle. The XCR is singled out by a relatively few people whose opinions pollute virtually every thread. ArmedSask is by far the worst offender in this regard, but there are others. I have NO PROBLEM with criticism, but we cannot even have a single thread without the irrational hatred for this rifle being expressed. If you like the AR or the swiss arms, more power to you, but leave the XCR threads alone.

The malfunction matrix lists three possible causes for two malfunctions. It suggests three possible fixes, one of which may be to use loctite. It does not suggest that you HAVE to loctite anything. It merely suggests that if you have this type of malfunction (without saying how common it is), that locktite might help fix it if the other two fixes are not applicable.

The construction of the original statement "i have read that some people will have to lokitite their xcr back togther as some stuff will fall off of it with some use" implies that prior to use the rifle must be disassembled and then re-assembled with loctite, something that the haters, like yourself, commonly repeat in threads related to the XCR. This is patently untrue, thus my comment.
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I don't see anything in the statement that implies anything must be done prior to use. I would interpret this statement "some people will have to do X because Y will happen" to be a statement that Y will happen in some cases and is remedied by action X.

The fact remains, and it's pretty simple, here, that the manual does recommend loctite as a possible fix for some problems. To say "you don't have to loctite anything, don't listen to the haters" implies that only haters think loctite will ever be needed. But the manufacturer advises that it MAY be needed. Frankly I don't think that's necessarily such a huge deal, so I don't know why you freak out any time anyone mentions loctiting.


If it makes you feel better to call me a "hater", fine...does not bother me much. I would guess that most people who read the XCR threads are capable of judging who is giving calm, rational critiques and who is launching into a tirade.

I'm sorry if you feel like the XCR gets an unfair amount of criticism from either me, or Armedsask, or anyone else. But that does not mean that criticising the XCR is unfair. Every person in this thread who has said anything negative about your gun has been rational and reasonable. It is not clear to me why you can't do the same.
 
I read through all posts and so far we have the following issues with the XCR:


- Some screws may need loctite

- Its front heavy

- Customer service of RA is not great


The last one is a bit of an issue, if your rifle has issues.... other than that, if those are the only issues with the rifle then thats not bad at all.


I recently got an XCR as an outdoors plinker. It works great for that, no issues whatsoever.

Would I carry it in a war? Maybe, but I'd like to avoid this altogether...

Would I get an AR over the XCR? I would have, if the AR wasnt restricted. However I read quiet a bit about AR issues as well so now I am not sure anymore. In the end the AR is like a 1911 or '94 .... You just have to have one ;)

At the end of the day I like to know what issues the XCR has so that I can work around it.

Please bring them forward, also there are enough people looking for a black rifle and the more they know upfront the better.

Teac
 
blaxsun said:
You forgot to include ergonomics. I didn't like how it felt, either - but opinions on this can and will vary (this may be influenced by a different stock or grip).
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Good point but is so subjective that its down to the individual taste. Try before you buy :)
 
I can only speculate that cost may have been one factor; I'm sure there were others. After all, it took quite a few years for piston ARs to materialize - and they are more expensive than their DI equivalents
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The AK47 was produced in much greater quantities by a much less advanced nation. Its piston driven.

The shortcomings of both the Tavor (which the OP went with) and AR are generally acknowledged. Just something to consider.
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This is true, however, there are not a handful of people who pursue every mention of either on this forum with an unending desire to attack them.

EVERY XCR thread ends up with this BS. Its not a question of being over sensitive, its a question of certain posters having an obsession with attacking the rifle.

Even in the FAQ thread, USP had to delete the trolls (see post 23).
 
Paul Morrison said:
The AK47 was produced in much greater quantities by a much less advanced nation. Its piston driven.
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Like I said, I couldn't really speculate - and I'm certainly not familiar enough with the AK47 beyond reputation. Politics perhaps?

Paul Morrison said:
This is true, however, there are not a handful of people who pursue every mention of either on this forum with an unending desire to attack them.
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On the same token, some of the very shortcomings of the XCR being discussed are typically the same ones most often ignored or at least glossed over. The maintenance issue (with or without loctite) is certainly there, and there has been quite a few posts with respect to performance and gas settings. Weight and balance not so much, but ergonomics is definitely another consideration.

Here's a different twist: what would you change on your XCR to make it the ultimate black rifle? A lighter 18.6" barrel? A folding/collapsible ACR-SCAR style stock? A lifetime supply of loctite...? (kidding, kidding... ;) )
 
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