XCR vs Sig classic green

Well I put both to the test today I picked up a newer version of the XCR with the better trigger and went out to my range today I ran them both as hard as I could putting 62 grain 5.56 at 100yrd. 500 rounds in each rifle Test one Accuracy and precision 5 deg outside temp. Cold rifle. the groups were both tight and there was not much difference at 100 rounds but after 125 rounds the XCR started to widen the groups a bit (Not much I was impressed) But the Sig stayed very close. At the 250rnd count the XCR was all over the place while again the Sig was still tight but had a few that were starting to widen in the groupe at the 400 mark they both were staring to shoot wild and the gropes on both were everywhere up to the 500 mark. the XCR was blistering hot I had to put on gloves to use it. while the SIG was still comfy to hold and not as hot on the forgrip. I would have to say the SIG wins that round but the XCR held up quite nice I must admit. Next was sand+mud and water I dunked both in and then cleared the water out so I did not get a breach. The XCR jammed up after 8 rounds while the SIG kept going. Round two goes to the SIG hands down.... Test 3 was to check for damage or cracking on both. The sig has some sand scratches but other then that flawless and the same goes for the XCR the only thing is all the pins and what not on the XCR became extremely loose and would not seat right after due to expanding plastic and steel differences Again the Sig wins only due to the fact that in a battle I would not want all my pins falling out... Now for a average range shooter the XCR will be perfect for you but as for battle its a complete fail as far as my test went but then again I AM NO EXPERT this was just my findings and opinion on both

SIG WINS 3-0 on my tests
XCR drawback: Gets very hott to fast and pins comeing loose
SIG drawbacks: Iron Sights really suck and need inprovement

XCR VS SIG Classic Green

Just a note I am going to do the same test on the XCR 7.62x39 and the CZ-858 as soon as I get the 7.62 version of the XCR in my hands
 
Man,
You were determined...I would have never put my Sig in mud. It is too expensive. As far as results of your test... I kind of expected something along these lines.
 
intersting thread....read it all (pretty lame for a friday)

Funny this is....I have nothing to add...at all

Have never handled or fired either a Sig or a XCR....go figure

Im gonna go clean and rub my MP5 now
 
Luqid_Snake said:
Well I put both to the test today I picked up a newer version of the XCR with the better trigger and went out to my range today I ran them both as hard as I could putting 62 grain 5.56 at 100yrd. 500 rounds in each rifle Test one Accuracy and precision 5 deg outside temp. Cold rifle. the groups were both tight and there was not much difference at 100 rounds but after 125 rounds the XCR started to widen the groups a bit (Not much I was impressed) But the Sig stayed very close. At the 250rnd count the XCR was all over the place while again the Sig was still tight but had a few that were starting to widen in the groupe at the 400 mark they both were staring to shoot wild and the gropes on both were everywhere up to the 500 mark. the XCR was blistering hot I had to put on gloves to use it. while the SIG was still comfy to hold and not as hot on the forgrip. I would have to say the SIG wins that round but the XCR held up quite nice I must admit. Next was sand+mud and water I dunked both in and then cleared the water out so I did not get a breach. The XCR jammed up after 8 rounds while the SIG kept going. Round two goes to the SIG hands down.... Test 3 was to check for damage or cracking on both. The sig has some sand scratches but other then that flawless and the same goes for the XCR the only thing is all the pins and what not on the XCR became extremely loose and would not seat right after due to expanding plastic and steel differences Again the Sig wins only due to the fact that in a battle I would not want all my pins falling out... Now for a average range shooter the XCR will be perfect for you but as for battle its a complete fail as far as my test went but then again I AM NO EXPERT this was just my findings and opinion on both

SIG WINS 3-0 on my tests
XCR drawback: Gets very hott to fast and pins comeing loose
SIG drawbacks: Iron Sights really suck and need inprovement

XCR VS SIG Classic Green

Just a note I am going to do the same test on the XCR 7.62x39 and the CZ-858 as soon as I get the 7.62 version of the XCR in my hands
Click to expand...


You went to all this trouble and didn't take pictures?
 
Luqid_Snake said:
MP5...... Now I am Jealous... I want a MP5
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You can clean mine....for $20...:D

9d829990.jpg
 
So I acquired the subject SAN classic green from Evan...had not shot or dissassembled rifle until reading this thread afterwhich I went downstairs for dissassembly and close inspection. Gas system was heavily fouled;

gas piston valve would bind between settings
min 1/16 max 1/8 thickness of carbon buildup between piston and spring retention collet
large cakes of carbon buildup in gas tube
boroscope reveals bore had significant powder and copper fouling

when I acquired rifle I was told the current owner was not the original owner. I believe the rifle has been shot alot and not cleaned properly (or at all in the case of the gas system. I spent a good hours scraping off the carbon and now believe she will run well like all the others beside her in the safe.

It's hunting season now though so I have some other shooting to do; range report will follow in a couple weeks when I get some time.

Cheers,

brobee
 
Luqid_Snake, what gas setting were you using on the XCR? How were the rifles lubricated? How many rounds have each of these rifles fired before the test approximately?

I'm not doubting your test, I'm just curious.
 
RevolverRodger said:
The SAN is one great rifle but it's a bit heavy. Not for wussies for sure.
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Revolver Rodger, good point... not for wussies, Never heard of anyone who complained their mercedes was too heavy when they were in an accident. When your life is on the line, you don't want a wussie gun!!!!! if ever that should happen.
 
I tryed to take pics but my camara was cold and kept shuting down right after I turned it on.. stupid cannon garbage

XCR gas was set to #2

Classic green has 5000 or more
XCR has just under 200

Lube was wilson I think its called
 
Luqid_Snake said:
Well I put both to the test today I picked up a newer version of the XCR with the better trigger and went out to my range today I ran them both as hard as I could putting 62 grain 5.56 at 100yrd. 500 rounds in each rifle Test one Accuracy and precision 5 deg outside temp. Cold rifle. the groups were both tight and there was not much difference at 100 rounds but after 125 rounds the XCR started to widen the groups a bit (Not much I was impressed) But the Sig stayed very close. At the 250rnd count the XCR was all over the place while again the Sig was still tight but had a few that were starting to widen in the groupe at the 400 mark they both were staring to shoot wild and the gropes on both were everywhere up to the 500 mark. the XCR was blistering hot I had to put on gloves to use it. while the SIG was still comfy to hold and not as hot on the forgrip. I would have to say the SIG wins that round but the XCR held up quite nice I must admit. Next was sand+mud and water I dunked both in and then cleared the water out so I did not get a breach. The XCR jammed up after 8 rounds while the SIG kept going. Round two goes to the SIG hands down.... Test 3 was to check for damage or cracking on both. The sig has some sand scratches but other then that flawless and the same goes for the XCR the only thing is all the pins and what not on the XCR became extremely loose and would not seat right after due to expanding plastic and steel difference.
Click to expand...

Very interesting... I guess the faster heating of the XCR's foregrip shouldn't be surprising because of the difference in design. On the SAN you have a plastic foregrip sandwiched between two pieces of the steel upper whereas on the XCR the aluminum upper runs the length of the rail covers. Same with the difference in accuracy since the aluminum upper will heat up alot faster... Guess that's the compromise you have to make for weight saving. I'd be curious to see how the XCR fares against a quad rail AR.

Also, gas setting #2 is a bit low for a fairly new XCR. You should have tried it on the higher gas settings to get a true measure of its reliability during the mud test.
 
I will agree with that. Even though some argue that "breakin" shouldn't be necessary, Robinson Armament recommends firing the first few hundred rounds on gas setting 4 until everything works itself together.

Interesting point about heating though.
 
It should be on setting 4. If you have it on 2 before you have put at least 500-600 rounds, and preferably 1000 you will see a few jams.

The spring needs to be worked in, and at first requires more gas to break it in.
 
Paul Morrison said:
It should be on setting 4. If you have it on 2 before you have put at least 500-600 rounds, and preferably 1000 you will see a few jams.
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1000rounds is a bit much for break in, Robarm recommends 2-3 hundred. If you keep it at 4 for too long you are just beating up the rifle and wearing out your buffer prematurely.
 
canadiangunuser said:
1000rounds is a bit much for break in, Robarm recommends 2-3 hundred. If you keep it at 4 for too long you are just beating up the rifle and wearing out your buffer prematurely.
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That is exactly right.
With the Robinson XCR you want the empty brass to fly at least 8 feet and no more than 15 feet.
If the brass flies farther than 15 feet the gas IS too high, and you are going to break things, starting with the rubber recoil buffer.
I did one in and I have 4 spares, but won't likely need them for a while now.
I use American Eagle ammo and I'm running the gas @ the lowest "S" setting on my XCR.
I've put over 600 rounds through this rifle and I've yet to have a rifle malfunction.
Had a few bad feeds because the Lads didn't load their mags right, but that's not the rifle's fault.
I can't say enough good things about my XCR, it's my favorite gun.
 
Koenig Tiger said:
Very interesting... I guess the faster heating of the XCR's foregrip shouldn't be surprising because of the difference in design. On the SAN you have a plastic foregrip sandwiched between two pieces of the steel upper whereas on the XCR the aluminum upper runs the length of the rail covers.
Click to expand...
:confused: The Sig handguards cover the gas tube and piston and a portion of the barrel. They mount at the rear, to the front of the receiver, and the front of the guards mount to the rear of the gas block.
If anything the venting on the monolithic upper of the XCR should dissipate heat far faster than the Sig.

Koenig Tiger said:
Same with the difference in accuracy since the aluminum upper will heat up alot faster... Guess that's the compromise you have to make for weight saving.
Click to expand...

Are you sure the upper is affecting accuracy? I thought the reason they went with the monolithic design was to float the barrel assembly? If that is the case, the railed fore grip should not affect accuracy - in theory...

Koenig Tiger said:
I'd be curious to see how the XCR fares against a quad rail AR.
Click to expand...

With regard to what? Accuracy? - they can't hold a candle to an average AR that is floated.
 
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