You are right it is a good gun. I have never said it is great or the best. It does not deserve all the negativity from the people frothing at the mouth over it though. Comparing it to AR's in Canada is just useless. It is like saying if my uncle had tits he would be my aunt.
Xcr war
- Thread starter m_falafel
- Start date
You are right it is a good gun. I have never said it is great or the best. It does not deserve all the negativity from the people frothing at the mouth over it though. Comparing it to AR's in Canada is just useless. It is like saying if my uncle had tits he would be my aunt.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
And if your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle.
Last edited:
- Location
- London, Ontario
Well the AR has had what, 50+ years of testing...it was not perfect over night. There are some dumb things about it too...and I have more experince with one then just shooting one at a range on a nice summer day...I have 4 years with the 4RCR and 6 months in the sandbox. I have seen ARs jam up in ALL sorts of ways.
Everyone should stop s**tting on the XCR and be happy you have many nice guns to choose from. The only thing more fun then talking about what you love is bashing on what you hate...
PS. Alot of you seem to only know about the XCR and its "issues" from second hand INTERNET sources which really is not worth much more then a handfull of dog poo.
Everyone should stop s**tting on the XCR and be happy you have many nice guns to choose from. The only thing more fun then talking about what you love is bashing on what you hate...
PS. Alot of you seem to only know about the XCR and its "issues" from second hand INTERNET sources which really is not worth much more then a handfull of dog poo.
Re ETA - to quote John Hipwell at Wolverine Supplies:
Re major ripoff:
Wolverine has quoted $2599 for the black version with $125 for a colour change. With tax and shipping probably less than 3 grand. http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=647754
Comparing this to the Bushmaster ACR and the Keltec RFB:
To quote #### Proenneke who has been doing range testing on the ACR...
$3600 to $4000 with taxes and shipping for the ACR.
As for the RFB - while these are similar in price to the XCR at $2,399.00 plus taxes and shipping, Wolverine reports a waiting list of 12 months. To quote Bryce from Wolverine Supplies...
Now other dealers may have them in stock. Demand may also push up the price. In the RFB threads there have been reports of quality control or design flaws in the RFBs shipped to Canada. These have been addressed and a remedy found.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The AR is simply superior for a wide variety of reasons, but it's restricted so this is somewhat a moot point.
To be certain! And certain types of black rifle owners tend to get sand in their manginas more easily than others...
By all means, I'd love to see such a comparison. I'm also waiting to hear some reports about how well the RFB handles Canadian winters as I'm interested in a black hunting rifle for deer, whether its a RFB, XCR, ACR or whatever.
All guns have teething problems - the RFB has one with the welds for the recoil springs on the top cover but that has been rectified (I hope). I (we) need more range and field testing of all these NR .308 platforms before I make up my mind and vote with my money.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
ACR (NR conversion) ... $3000-$3500 (currently out-of-stock)
Tavor ... $3,299 (currently out-of-stock; used surface for around $2,800)
FS2000 (NR conversion) ... $4,000+ (currently unavailable)
Swiss Arms ... $3,599 (used usually $2,800-$3,000)
SCAR (NR conversion) ... $4,500++ (unobtanium!)
I'm not sure what the wait time is on the XCR-M, but I don't think it's 12 months for the RFB. I think it's more like a few months (used ones seem to pop-up all the time, and there was a batch of the new FDE ones advertised recently).
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Just as a follow-up (quick cons)...
ACR ... selector switch location not ideal; no barrel assemblies
Tavor ... trigger sucks, accuracy; limited mounting options
FS2000 ... only accepts standard AR metal mags (no PMAGs, etc.)
Swiss Arms ... heavy, expensive $$; no rails/mounting options standard
SCAR ... CFC
ACR ... selector switch location not ideal; no barrel assemblies
Tavor ... trigger sucks, accuracy; limited mounting options
FS2000 ... only accepts standard AR metal mags (no PMAGs, etc.)
Swiss Arms ... heavy, expensive $$; no rails/mounting options standard
SCAR ... CFC
Lets make sure were comparing .308/6.8 SPC platforms and not .223 here. I don't believe there are any .308 Tavors or Swiss rifles (and even so they would be expensive) The SCAR I'm not sure but considering its a military design I'd guess its only .223 also.
I believe the base price for the ACR was $3299+ at dealer in Saskatchewan, not sure what Questar was charging for the .223 ACR. The numbers I quoted were #### Proenneke estimate for an ACR converted to 6.8 SPC as there is no .308 ACR.
I believe the base price for the ACR was $3299+ at dealer in Saskatchewan, not sure what Questar was charging for the .223 ACR. The numbers I quoted were #### Proenneke estimate for an ACR converted to 6.8 SPC as there is no .308 ACR.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
There aren't any 6.8 SPC/.308 options for any other NR black rifles other than the RFB (maybe 6.8 SPC for the ACR at a later date). These were all .223/5.56mm.
Questar had the NR ACR listed for $2,999 as I recall.
OldFrankHog
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Gatineau QC
Is the RFB talked about in the black rifle section only because, well, its color is black? Isnt it more of a hunting gun? Does Browning still make all black BAR rifles, and should we discuss them here?
Lets remember were not just talking about a rifle here. You need rings and optics, a sling perhaps, rails for mounting unless integral to the firearm, ammo to shoot - it all adds up.
You're looking at at least $250 to $500 to scope it out unless you have a spare scope not being used. Add rings - any where from say $75+ for quality rings to 100+ for milspec. Ammo costs: cheap surplus in anything other than 7.62x39mm is hard to find and not necessarily all that cheap.
So unless you have deep pockets...
You're looking at at least $250 to $500 to scope it out unless you have a spare scope not being used. Add rings - any where from say $75+ for quality rings to 100+ for milspec. Ammo costs: cheap surplus in anything other than 7.62x39mm is hard to find and not necessarily all that cheap.
So unless you have deep pockets...
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I think the RFB is more of a black rifle (being a bullpup design) as it was originally designed with a much shorter barrel, front ejection, high capacity magazines (at least in the US), etc. 18.5" NR status and hunting = bonus in Canada. Btw, it now also comes in flat dark earth/tan.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
It certainly does... it's like pet ownership: if you thought the purchase price of the dog was expensive, wait until you get the first vet bill...
Its more about design. The RFB is a bullpup which is a more modern design. There are those that use a Norc M14 clone for hunting. I'm building a Norc shorty myself for the same reason. But what we are talking about in this thread is the preference of using a firearm either explicitly designed as a military weapon or similar to such, for a purpose other than punching holes in paper. I know of shooters that use a CZ 858 to hunt with while I use one only for range plinking (its a restricted CZ).
Well my pockets aren't that deep and I certainly buy too many firearms (I'm a milsurp collector as well as a hunter and range plinker). Realistically the only two in the running right now for me are the RFB and the XCR. Plus my Norc shorty build has not been inexpensive. When the dust settles my cash might have been better spent elsewhere.
OldFrankHog
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Gatineau QC
I understand that but is there a military that uses a bullpup design for their DMR .308 ?
Anyways back on topic, I think we will see much of the problems that plagued the XCR-L gone in the -M version as Robinson will not want a bunch of whining "I-told-you-so'er's" criticizing their gun again so they will have tested the #### out of them and that's why it's so late to the table. My opinion.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Famous last words...! I heard RobArms got a loctite endorsement, though... (I kid, I kid!)
Frank, what folks are talking about is firearms loosely or explicitly based on military designs. Usually this means semi auto feeding, composite stocks, shorter barrels, magazine fed, military or scoped sights.
There have been a few semi auto hunting rifles besides the BAR. Remington 7400, Benelli Argo, etc.
There have been a few semi auto hunting rifles besides the BAR. Remington 7400, Benelli Argo, etc.
OK I see what you're getting at. No not to my knowledge as a DMR. There's the Steyr AUG that Austria and Australia uses, the Israeli Tavor and the Enfield used by the Brits but these are not DMRs.
I believe there is a bullpup sniper but I'm not sure if its a semi or bolt.
