Year of the magazine, will 3 gun suck?

kanada kidd said:
So, will you adapt when somebody decides 5 is too many?
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Yes! And while I'm at it I will continue to do what I've been doing ever since I became a licensed firearms owner - donate to gun orgs, speak and write to politicians, and educate every non-gun owner that will listen how magazine laws don't make anyone safer, their sole purpose is to win political points.

When somebody decides 5 is too many what are you going to do, quit? Is that your plan? That'll show those antis!

Why is it some people in this forum equate adapting with rolling over? Is there something wrong with enjoying a sport to the fullest ability within the law? I thought that's what we've been doing in Canada for decades now.
 
infidel29 said:
Obviously, you'll have to if you want to compete legally, or be labelled a criminal by the law and society. Stupid question.
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I didn't think it was stupid, especially if you want to compete in a shooting competition. However, if you want to compete in a reloading competition, you'll be all set.
 
kanada kidd said:
I didn't think it was stupid, especially if you want to compete in a shooting competition. However, if you want to compete in a reloading competition, you'll be all set.
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I'm pretty sure the rest of us think it's stupid.
Yes to adapt - keep shooting.
No to adapt - sit on your hands at home and don't keep shooting.

'Nuff said.
 
tomo333 said:
I'm pretty sure the rest of us think it's stupid.
Yes to adapt - keep shooting.
No to adapt - sit on your hands at home and don't keep shooting.

'Nuff said.
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The op asked if 3 gun will suck with mag restrictions, I say yes, but since you speak for everyone else here, I guess you're right.
 
tomo333 said:
We aren't referring to the OP's original question. We are referring to your question "So will you adapt when somebody decides 5 is too many?"
Just to clarify.
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Ok, I was probably too short on my posts, let me explain a bit.

When bill C-68 came out, the Liberals saw a need for competitors to be allowed higher capacity magazines. At that time, they even told us, "don't worry guys, this isn't about you." So, the exemption was put in the bill so competitors (mostly IPSC at that time) would still be able to keep and use whatever magazines they needed.

At the same time, IPSC shooters began pinning their mags to 10. Even though the exemption was there, to my knowledge, they never issued any permits. IPSC Canada actually put a rule in place saying that anyone using a magazine with over 10 shots would be disqualified from the match. Now this is probably 20 years ago so I don't remember exactly, but I think Kim Campbell became PM and too the exemption out because there was no need for is since IPSC already had a 10 shot rule. Feel free to correct me if this isn't accurate.

So, for shooting a club match with 15 or 20 guys, you can use single shots if you have to but if you want to compete on a world stage, forget it. With an IPSC gun, there is a big weight difference between 10 shots and 30 shots, the gun recoils different. Reloading a 23 shot mag into the gun is different that reloading a 10 shot mag. Stage strategy is not the same either and you can't practice this stuff without the same equipment.

3 gun shooting is even worse. AR mags would have the same issues as above, but then we have shotguns. You can use 8 shot speed loaders because your tube only holds 5. Sure you can change tubes when you go to the US, but again, the gun feels different and your speed loaders are different lengths. That's why I don't shoot international 3 gun events, there is no way to properly train for them.

Now I'm not saying you can't still have fun going to big matches, maybe you can win a high C class trophy or something, but there is no way you will ever win the match.

When you guys say you can adapt whatever they throw at you, that's fine for a club shooter. But if you want to shoot world class events, you won't be able to compete with the guys that shoot this equipment every week or every day. That's why the message to the government should be, "you are killing our shooting sports in Canada and embarrassing our international competitors."
 
Governments dont care. Im sure guns will be banned in my lifetime or extremely regulated.

And just like sheep we will follow.
 
kanada kidd said:
Ok, I was probably too short on my posts, let me explain a bit.

When bill C-68 came out, the Liberals saw a need for competitors to be allowed higher capacity magazines. At that time, they even told us, "don't worry guys, this isn't about you." So, the exemption was put in the bill so competitors (mostly IPSC at that time) would still be able to keep and use whatever magazines they needed.

At the same time, IPSC shooters began pinning their mags to 10. Even though the exemption was there, to my knowledge, they never issued any permits. IPSC Canada actually put a rule in place saying that anyone using a magazine with over 10 shots would be disqualified from the match. Now this is probably 20 years ago so I don't remember exactly, but I think Kim Campbell became PM and too the exemption out because there was no need for is since IPSC already had a 10 shot rule. Feel free to correct me if this isn't accurate.

So, for shooting a club match with 15 or 20 guys, you can use single shots if you have to but if you want to compete on a world stage, forget it. With an IPSC gun, there is a big weight difference between 10 shots and 30 shots, the gun recoils different. Reloading a 23 shot mag into the gun is different that reloading a 10 shot mag. Stage strategy is not the same either and you can't practice this stuff without the same equipment.

3 gun shooting is even worse. AR mags would have the same issues as above, but then we have shotguns. You can use 8 shot speed loaders because your tube only holds 5. Sure you can change tubes when you go to the US, but again, the gun feels different and your speed loaders are different lengths. That's why I don't shoot international 3 gun events, there is no way to properly train for them.

Now I'm not saying you can't still have fun going to big matches, maybe you can win a high C class trophy or something, but there is no way you will ever win the match.

When you guys say you can adapt whatever they throw at you, that's fine for a club shooter. But if you want to shoot world class events, you won't be able to compete with the guys that shoot this equipment every week or every day. That's why the message to the government should be, "you are killing our shooting sports in Canada and embarrassing our international competitors."
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Wow. Baffle them with bullsh#t is a good way to go. You assessment of shooting 3 gun because we are handicapped by mag capacity is sorely mistaken. The largest part of the problem is not having the sponsored, full time shooters like the Americans do. My friend and I regularly compete in the US against the guys that according to you have this huge advantage of practicing with US capacity mags and we regularly place in the top ten.
Think what you want to think and use whatever excuses you want. Don't get me wrong. Our laws suck. But don't use them as an excuse because you can't compete.
 
There's a big difference placing in the top 10 at club shoots and placing in the top 10 at majors. If you are both placing in the top 10 at big shoots, you should have sponsors knocking at your door, no?
 
I'm curious guys, what should I tell people when they ask why we need big magazines in Canada? I have always said they are for action shooting competition because I couldn't think of another legitimate reason.
 
kanada kidd said:
Ok, I was probably too short on my posts, let me explain a bit.

When bill C-68 came out, the Liberals saw a need for competitors to be allowed higher capacity magazines. At that time, they even told us, "don't worry guys, this isn't about you." So, the exemption was put in the bill so competitors (mostly IPSC at that time) would still be able to keep and use whatever magazines they needed.

At the same time, IPSC shooters began pinning their mags to 10. Even though the exemption was there, to my knowledge, they never issued any permits. IPSC Canada actually put a rule in place saying that anyone using a magazine with over 10 shots would be disqualified from the match. Now this is probably 20 years ago so I don't remember exactly, but I think Kim Campbell became PM and too the exemption out because there was no need for is since IPSC already had a 10 shot rule. Feel free to correct me if this isn't accurate.

So, for shooting a club match with 15 or 20 guys, you can use single shots if you have to but if you want to compete on a world stage, forget it. With an IPSC gun, there is a big weight difference between 10 shots and 30 shots, the gun recoils different. Reloading a 23 shot mag into the gun is different that reloading a 10 shot mag. Stage strategy is not the same either and you can't practice this stuff without the same equipment.

3 gun shooting is even worse. AR mags would have the same issues as above, but then we have shotguns. You can use 8 shot speed loaders because your tube only holds 5. Sure you can change tubes when you go to the US, but again, the gun feels different and your speed loaders are different lengths. That's why I don't shoot international 3 gun events, there is no way to properly train for them.

Now I'm not saying you can't still have fun going to big matches, maybe you can win a high C class trophy or something, but there is no way you will ever win the match.

When you guys say you can adapt whatever they throw at you, that's fine for a club shooter. But if you want to shoot world class events, you won't be able to compete with the guys that shoot this equipment every week or every day. That's why the message to the government should be, "you are killing our shooting sports in Canada and embarrassing our international competitors."
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I agree with what you are saying.
There definitely is a difference routinely training and competing with normal capacity magazines vs the neutered BS we have to use here.

Even worse is the fact that here in Ontario, CFO "rules" have us burying steel in bunkers, shrouded by half a forest worth of lumber and wrapped in bubble wrap in case a bullet fragment goes more than 5 feet from the steel.
Add to that the fact that few ranges allow action shooting with a rifle on any ranges with distance and you get very noncompetitive shooters travelling to the US.
Some of us manage to do well despite these limitations, but we could be doing much much better if we didn't have them.

Personally, if more mag restriction comes down the pipeline, it would make competing here so lame that I probably wouldn't bother.
I'd rather drive to the US a couple times a month and train properly, and attend matches.

Your not going to be competitive if you can't shoot on the move.
You can't train to shoot on the move with any proficiency or flow if you are reloading after each target.

You aren't going to be competitive if your equipment feels dramatically different at a major vs what you have been practising with here.
 
I'll add to pauls eloquent and poetic post by saying that we Canadian shooters are somewhat hobbled by the rules that restrict us in shooting.
Many of our American friends just have it easier when it comes to training. There are many who can just step out into their back 40 to practice.
For us... Well, it's a scheduled trip to the approved range where chances are we can't shoot very far.. 100yrds. max. for most of us.
If your approved range has a list of Fuddy rules or odd CFO imposed restrictions, well then chances are you can't practice effectively without upsetting someone.
The day may come where like pauls alluded to the only way to sassify ones 3 gun urges will be to travel out of Canada.
 
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pauls said:
Personally, if more mag restriction comes down the pipeline, it would make competing here so lame that I probably wouldn't bother. I'd rather drive to the US a couple times a month and train properly, and attend matches.
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Traveling to the US to shoot sounds suspiciously like adapting! ;)

I get what some people like chuckbuster and kanadakid are trying to say. The harsh reality is that if you're a firearms owner in Canada and are holding out hope that competitive shooting sports will prevent further neutering of your mags, you might as well wish in one hand and you-know-what in the other and see which fills up first. Trying to convince an anti that you "need" normal capacity mags for competition is a recipe for disappointment as almost all "need" arguments inevitably are.

Pauls is the only one so far that has presented any kind of logic as to why we "need" our mag capacity to remain the same - namely that further restrictions will mean that shooters will no longer bother competing in Canada and will be forced to travel to the US and spend their money there. Still, Pauls' argument is a small one in the minds of those who want to limit us further. To be blunt, who really cares about the Pauls or the 667s and the hardships they face having to travel to the US, eating tasty bbq along the way?

Competitive shooting has, in the past, and will continue to go a long way towards preserving our ability to own and shoot restricted firearms in Canada but as sad as it makes me to type this, it is unlikely to save our magazine capacity. Hopefully I'm wrong.
 
Actually, me sentiment was exactly what kanada Kidd said. It does suck that competitors are not exempt from mag restrictions. And the guns do load different at full capacity. The first few runs I had with my single stack 1911 were much different than loading a pinned 10 mag. Then of course strategy is going to be different. Honestly, I am tempted to start up 3 gun Airsoft for aspiring CDN 3 gunners USA bound.

Take the 2004 steel challenge winner. According to Wikipedia, he did most of his practice with Airsoft, then only spent a month or so with live ammo and was good to go. It is a Wikipedia link, so take it for what its worth.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatsuya_Sakai_(marksman)

Its either that or I'm going full on PRS shooting. I don't think bolt guns are on the mag radar yet.
 
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