Your choice of C&C Bullets?

Bowie

Bowie

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As a youngster reading too many gun magazines, I was under the impression that I needed a "premium" bullet to hunt with. Mind you, I was hunting primarily whitetails with the likes of a 6.5x55 or similar cartridge. Fast forward twenty-five years, and I realize that while there are many instances where premium bullets are a vastly superior choice, a 140 grain bullet flying 2600 fps towards a broadside deer isn't one of them.

I have experimented with many different bullets, and have had only one "failure" (well not really as i pulled it out of a dead deer) in a 6.5. That was a 140 Sierra Gameking which I fired into the neck of a buck at about 25 paces. The frontal shot broke the spine but failed to exit the deer's neck, and had separated jacket from core.
Since that time I find myself buying Hornady interlocks more often than the rest, but it could be the color of the nice red boxes, or the amount of advertising. Who knows.

At any rate, what do you prefer for traditional cup and core bullets, and why?
 
I think for the traditional cup & core it is hard to beat the Rem core'lokt followed closely be the Honrady interlock. They both have an interlock ring to help keep the core in place. Remingtons seem to hold together much better. Somewhere there is a balance between bullt diameter and weight compared to core thickness. Speer hot core are also very good.
Some experiences. with Hornady. The 140 gr btsp 270 gives amazing results and bullet weight retention. Go to 30 cal and the 165 gr btsp really come apart quickly from the 300 mag or even 30-06 velocities but works well in the 308. Anything less tha 162 in the 7mag vaporize. The Remington bullets seem to hold together better at the same velocities but they are not boat tail.
Usually with anything with a mv of over 2800 fps I will go to the partition or accubond.

Neilm
 
Of cup and core bullets, I've shot more Hornadys than anything. Ross Seyfried used to describe them as the cheapest of the premium bullets, an interesting way of looking at things. Its sort of like debating whether a .375 is the smallest of the big guns or the biggest of the small guns.

Most hunting is "ordinary". Ordinary rather soft game, ordinary ranges and standard velocities. In the way things have of working themselves out, the higher velocity rifles tend to be used at longer range and the velocities have dropped off a bit on their own. Not surprisingly ordinary bullets seem to work just fine if not better for ordinary use. If something else would make more people happier more of the time it would quickly because the new standard.


You can go a long ways towards ensuring that standard C&C bullets work by avoiding boat tails.
 
I use interlocks 117 gr at 3100+fps in my 25/06. Have yet to recover a bullet from an animal. When fired into water jugs or sand or snow they loose a lot of weight but I've never had one come apart. I've been wanting to try swift A frames but at a 1/3 of the price the interlocks shoot so well and they just work. The other cup and core I use are the good old cheap Remington 405 gr flat nose soft points in my 45/70. Lob one of those at a mv of 1650 into the chest of any NA animal and they're not going to walk it off.
 
I don't know about cup and core, but spitzer bullets I do. Nosler ballistic tip and accubond I use................have been since 1982 when I started reloading. Not once did they fail.........oh yes, partition bullets, I use them as well .
 
track said:
I don't know about cup and core, but spitzer bullets I do. Nosler ballistic tip and accubond I use................have been since 1982 when I started reloading. Not once did they fail.........oh yes, partition bullets, I use them as well .
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Spitzer is just a style/shape of bullet....it has nothing to do with construction but rather shape. Accubond is not a cup and core but rather a bonded bullet. Cup and core refers to the construction method and many styles/shapes are included.

I rarely shoot cup and cores any more other than varmints. I prefer a bonded or mono metal but not doubt cup and cores have killed a ton of game and continue to.
 
sheephunter said:
Spitzer is just a style/shape of bullet....it has nothing to do with construction but rather shape. Accubond is not a cup and core but rather a bonded bullet. Cup and core refers to the construction method and many styles/shapes are included.

I rarely shoot cup and cores any more other than varmints. I prefer a bonded or mono metal but not doubt cup and cores have killed a ton of game and continue to.
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OK, I've learned something. I'll stick with Noslers and not concern myself with cup and core. I'll assume that their construction/design is not as good as the aforementioned.
 
track said:
OK, I've learned something. I'll stick with Noslers and not concern myself with cup and core. I'll assume that their construction/design is not as good as the aforementioned.
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Actually Nosler makes cup and core too. I know we've had this discussion before Track but what you seem to be missing is that cup and core describes how the bullets are constructed and pretty well every bullet manufacturer makes a cup and core bullet...or several.
 
Wow, a gun counter expert and reloading since 1982 and not sure what a cup and core bullet is. Wow!

I guess it's never too late to learn something simple eh Track?
 
crazy_davey said:
Wow, a gun counter expert and reloading since 1982 and not sure what a cup and core bullet is. Wow!

I guess it's never too late to learn something simple eh Track?
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At least I admit not to knowing something elementary in the reloading world...........at least I admit it. Hell, you could probably read all reloading manuals from the top of your head, cover to cover. However, what I do know about bullets, is where to hammer the really big boys, and to me that's what counts the most................feel better or any other words of encouragement?
 
sheephunter said:
Actually Nosler makes cup and core too. I know we've had this discussion before Track but what you seem to be missing is that cup and core describes how the bullets are constructed and pretty well every bullet manufacturer makes a cup and core bullet...or several.
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Well I guess that cup and core bullets were probably not that important to me (to date I still did not look-up info. in my 8 manuals, probably never will) and only concentrated on spitzer and partition, followed by accubond when they arrived on scene..................decades after the said two. They are great bullets and will do the job on all North American big game, they served my purpose quite will, so far. Thanks for your info anyway.
 
track said:
Well I guess that cup and core bullets were probably not that important to me (to date I still did not look-up info. in my 8 manuals, probably never will) and only concentrated on spitzer and partition, followed by accubond when they arrived on scene..................decades after the said two. They are great bullets and will do the job on all North American big game, they served my purpose quite will, so far. Thanks for your info anyway.
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There are C&C spires and bonded spires... personally I use Hornady C&C's in most of my larger cartridges that I load with slower, heavy for caliber bullets... examples would be .338 Fed, .358 Win, .35 Whelen and .366 Wag as well as 9.3X74R... I tend to load "premium" bonded bullets or mono's in my smaller, faster cartridges. Most of my straight wall and/or pistol cartridges (from rifles) eat hard cast of various styles.
 
track said:
Well I guess that cup and core bullets were probably not that important to me (to date I still did not look-up info. in my 8 manuals, probably never will) and only concentrated on spitzer and partition, followed by accubond when they arrived on scene..................decades after the said two. They are great bullets and will do the job on all North American big game, they served my purpose quite will, so far. Thanks for your info anyway.
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I think the point that you are missing is that you use cup and cores.....you just don't seem to know it.
 
I have always had good results with Hornday Interlock SP's in .308, .30-06 and 6.5x55 on game. I have used 165gr Sierra Gamekings in a .308 on a few animals (black bear and whitetail) with satisfcation and found them very accurate but a little soft.

I found Speer HotCore BT's to be extremely accurate in the my .308 but use them for training. Years ago I shot 2 head of game with 180gr Hotcores from my .30-06 and both came apart horribly, including one that never exited a Grey Duiker (re 50lbs). I stopped using them after that.

I have never used Corelokts but did use Remington PSP's in a .30-06/180r that I bought bulk in a ziplock bag. They were OK.

I used a good number of South African made PMP's as well and never had any serious issues.

I have used Hornady Interlocks the most and have always thought they were accurate and decently tough for a CnC bullet. Well priced too. I just tried some again this weekend in a .300H&H and they gave good accuracy.
 
sheephunter said:
I think the point that you are missing is that you use cup and cores.....you just don't seem to know it.
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Well, I always referred bullets as spitzer, (lead filled /copper jacket) hence mentioned on the Nosler boxes and reloading manual, however; never came across wording such as cup and core, until this forum. Great bullets no matter what they are called, will continue to use them.
 
track said:
Well, I always referred bullets as spitzer, (lead filled /copper jacket) hence mentioned on the Nosler boxes and reloading manual, however; never came across wording such as cup and core, until this forum. Great bullets no matter what they are called, will continue to use them.
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You are still missing the point- spitzer is shape of a bullet, loosely translated as being a flatbased bullet with a pointed tip. A spitzer bullet is not necessarily defined as a "lead filled/copper jacket" bullet as you seem to think. A solid copper or a bonded bullet could also be described as a spitzer bullet depending on its shape, not what it is made of or its internal construction...

Summary:

Spitzer is a shape of bullet, not what it is made out of or how it is made.
 
Cup and core refers to a basic design consisting of a copper jacket filled with lead. Not bonded, not partitioned, not solid metal. Just good old copper and lead. A C&C bullet can be spitzer shaped, roundnosed, flatnosed etc.

Hope things are getting more clear for you.
 
The name 'spitzer' comes from the German word Spitzgeschoss, meaning "pointy bullet".

Cup and core was a derogatory term meaning a bullet made from cup stamped and drawn from sheet-metal and a lead core swaged to shape. Somehow it became part of the vernacular.

Ballistic-tips, Accubonds and Partitions aren't cup and core. The construction technique there is "impact extrusion" where the jacket is punched out of a billet and can be made more of a supporting body with a lead filling than a gilding metal wrapper on a lead core. The original partitions were machined out of rod. While we're at it Nosler didn't invent the partition, he stole it from the German H-Mantle and thought no-one would know the difference.

Whether a bullet is bonded has no bearing on whether it is a cup and core or not. Some C&C bullets are bonded, some are not. Some formed bodies are bonded, and some are not.
 
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