zeroing a scope, question

[uchi]

If you have to force it you're doing it wrong. Careful.

Just to expand on a few things and to answer a few of your questions...

Yes you are correct. If your scope adjustments are 1 click at 100 yards = 1/4" then yes 1 click at 200 yards = 1/2". Are you familiar with Minute of Angle? Basically 1 MOA at 100 yards = 1", 1 MOA at 200 yards = 2", 1 MOA at 350 yards = 3.5', 1 MOA at 800 yards = 8" and so on and so on. Your scope has 1/4 MOA adjustments so say 1 click at 400 yards would = 1", 2 clicks at 650 yards = 3.25" etc, etc.

What type of shooting are you planning on doing with your rifle/scope combo? Depending on what calibre your rifle is and if you're planning to hunt or target shoot will determine what a practical zero is for your rifle. If you're target shooting go ahead, find the trajectory for your load and keep track of the clicks for a given range. If you're hunting that changes things. I can expand on that if you wish.

what do you guys do who shoot long range stuff when a click turns into 4 inches or more?

right now the plan is just target shooting. i may hunt at some point but for now itll just be target shooting. its a remington 700 sps and its a 30-06. the problem is my range only goes to 200 yards so im limited to that, so for now the scope will be fine, although at 12x id still prefer if i was a little closer to the longer targets.

its been suggested a few times, and im gonna start keeping a log, wind direction and rough idea of speed, distance, any information i have on the ammunition im using, etc, and what setup hits closest to center.

This is really, really strange. Is it mounted on an ordinary rifle (i.e. is the centreline of the scope 1.5" or 2" above the rifle's boreline)? Or is it mounted very high above the boreline (for example a scope mounted on top of an AR-15 carrying handle)?

It is normal and expected for a rifle to hit point of aim at 25 yards and 100 yards.

And if your point of impact is your point of aim when shooting at 100 yards, then at 200 yards for nearly every centrefire rifle cartridge you will be about two minutes (or roughly four inches or so) low, more or less.

I can't think of any reasonable expectation to explain you being sighted in at 100 yards, but to be hitting extremely high at 200 yards.



A brief google search suggests to me that this is a hunting scope, so I would expect you the sort of adjustment dials that have a slot that you can turn with a coin, and it would also have hashmarks but not numbers printed on your dials? (versus a target scope, which would have numbers printed on the the knob and you are able to use your fingers to turn the knobs)

If you are hearing clicks, you are moving your scope's adjustments. You do not want to be doing this when you are trying to make your knobs read "zero" after you've sighted in your rifle.

Another thing you can do instead of attempting to move the knobs, is to put a small dab of liquid paper on your elevation and windage dial, to indicate to you where you line them up to return to your 100 yard zero.

Also, by far the most common scope adjustment click size is "quarter minute clicks", which means that one click will move the bullet point of impact by 1/4" at 100 yards (or 2/4" which is 1/2" at 200 yards, 3/4" at 300 yards, 6/4" or 1.5" at 600 yards, etc)

hi, its on a remington 700, the scope is fairly close to the barrel so there isnt that large gap like youd find on an ar.

i talked to the guy who sighted in my scope for me at the range, hes an ex military sniper, super guy and got me sorted out quick, and i mentioned this to him and he said its likely because the bullet is arching still, so at 100 its dead on, and its still on its way to its peak at 200 which is why its that much higher. now this being said, it could have only been a little high, im still new to shooting this far so i could have very well been missing the target all together and it hitting high could have been the reason for it. also im basing my hits on my buddy spotting me, he was having a hard time seeing clearly out of my crappy tire scope and said it was high, it could have very well been low and he could have been seeing the dust, but he claimed he was seeing the point of impact over the target. so next time im out that far ill turn the scope down and see where im hitting, if im hitting at all.

not sure what the scope is for, im willing to bet that youre right because its a banner dusk dawn scope so its supposed to be good in low light stuff. but when i remove the dust caps i dont need a coin to turn the turrets or knobs or whatever theyre called. they have a piece there thats used for adjusting the windage and elevation, ill try to take a pic tonight and post it. there are markings on there but no numbers. ive seen the elite series of scopes and these arent like that. theyre the same idea as the coin twist you talk about but have a thing to grab onto with my fingers.

yeah the instructions made it sound like i had to move the ring, and i did, but that was wrong, had to use pliers. turns on the disc thats in there with the markings on it is what they want you to move, but you need to pop it up with a tiny screw driver other wise it doesnt move. so ive moved that and now its set to zero. just took some frustration and a headache to do so.

and yes the scope is a 1/4" at 100 scope.

and here it is mounted to the gun

 

[uchi]

theres the windage dial. the disc with the marking moves when you loosen the screw that you use to adjust the settings

 

[rnbra-shooter]

what do you guys do who shoot long range stuff when a click turns into 4 inches or more?

A quarter minute click will always be a quarter minute, no matter what range you are shooting at.

It's quite useful to get into the habit of working in minutes of angle rather than inches. For one thing, the accuracy capability of you and also your rifle and your ammo is so and so many minutes of angle. And your sight adjustments are in minutes of angle.

Many competition target shooters will plot the location of each shot as they shoot, on a plotting card that has a diagram of the target rings plus a grid that is in minutes of angle. So at 500 yards, you'll see that the bullseye five ring) is about two minutes of angle in size (in inches that would be 10 inches in diameter, but that is much much less interesting than the fact that it is 2 MOA in diameter). If my first sighter is a five but on the line at the very bottom of the 5-ring, plotting my shot there will show me that had I had 1 MOA more of elevation on my scope the shot would have gone through the middle. In response to this a shooter would typically add 1/2 MOA to his elevation (to avoid overcorrecting, a very good rule of thumb is to make half-sized corrections).

If I am shooting at 1000 yards, a single quarter minute click will move my bullet 2.5". The important thing to me is that my bullet moves a quarter of a minute. So once I plot the fall of my shot on my plot sheet, I can see how many minute of elevation or windage I might want to adjust before I fire my next shot.

If I am shooting at 300 yards, a single quarter minute click will move my bullet 3/4". Again, what is more important to me is that it is a quarter of a minute - I look at my target and my fall of shot and I always think in terms of how many minutes my group is in size, how many minutes low or high or left or right it is landing. And then if I change my sights, I change them so-and-so-many minutes.

its been suggested a few times, and im gonna start keeping a log, wind direction and rough idea of speed, distance, any information i have on the ammunition im using, etc, and what setup hits closest to center.

Very good suggestions. For each rifle I own, I have a small (shirt pocket sized) little hardcover notebook that I keep either in my shooting bag or gun case. Every time that I shoot I will write down the date, the kind of ammo I am using, the distance I shoot, the elevation I needed, the number of shots I fired, the score that I got, and the size of the group that I shot. From page to page I'll keep a running total of how many rounds are through the barrel since new. Any day that I go out shooting I will flip back to the most recent time or two that I last fired at that distance and use that data to set my sights before I fire my first shot.

Re: your odd case of the bullet hitting higher at 200y than it did at 100, that is quite unlikely, a better explanation might be that your buddy who was spotting for you might have been making a mistake (especially if he wasn't particularly experienced as a spotter - for example he might not have been properly lined up behind you or not understood how to interpret what he saw if was was at a different location; also if your bullet passes through a wooden frame it can deflect a surprising amount before it hits the backstop)

Your scope does have hunting style adjustment knobs but they are a nice improvement over the usual "adjust with a coin" type. It is quite nice to be able to use your fingertips to make changes.

The main difference that target scope knobs have is that they are numbered, so that you can record in your data book that (say) your 100y elevation is "5.0 minutes" and your wind zero is at "3.5". Without numbers to record, you can still keep things straight but you need to always keep track (in your book!) about what sight changes you make, so you can always get back to wherever it is you want to be. This is where a dab of liquid paper (say) can help you to always find your 100 yard zero.

 

[hend238]

A quarter minute click will always be a quarter minute, no matter what range you are shooting at.

It's quite useful to get into the habit of working in minutes of angle rather than inches. For one thing, the accuracy capability of you and also your rifle and your ammo is so and so many minutes of angle. And your sight adjustments are in minutes of angle.

Many competition target shooters will plot the location of each shot as they shoot, on a plotting card that has a diagram of the target rings plus a grid that is in minutes of angle. So at 500 yards, you'll see that the bullseye five ring) is about two minutes of angle in size (in inches that would be 10 inches in diameter, but that is much much less interesting than the fact that it is 2 MOA in diameter). If my first sighter is a five but on the line at the very bottom of the 5-ring, plotting my shot there will show me that had I had 1 MOA more of elevation on my scope the shot would have gone through the middle. In response to this a shooter would typically add 1/2 MOA to his elevation (to avoid overcorrecting, a very good rule of thumb is to make half-sized corrections).

If I am shooting at 1000 yards, a single quarter minute click will move my bullet 2.5". The important thing to me is that my bullet moves a quarter of a minute. So once I plot the fall of my shot on my plot sheet, I can see how many minute of elevation or windage I might want to adjust before I fire my next shot.

If I am shooting at 300 yards, a single quarter minute click will move my bullet 3/4". Again, what is more important to me is that it is a quarter of a minute - I look at my target and my fall of shot and I always think in terms of how many minutes my group is in size, how many minutes low or high or left or right it is landing. And then if I change my sights, I change them so-and-so-many minutes.




Very good suggestions. For each rifle I own, I have a small (shirt pocket sized) little hardcover notebook that I keep either in my shooting bag or gun case. Every time that I shoot I will write down the date, the kind of ammo I am using, the distance I shoot, the elevation I needed, the number of shots I fired, the score that I got, and the size of the group that I shot. From page to page I'll keep a running total of how many rounds are through the barrel since new. Any day that I go out shooting I will flip back to the most recent time or two that I last fired at that distance and use that data to set my sights before I fire my first shot.

Re: your odd case of the bullet hitting higher at 200y than it did at 100, that is quite unlikely, a better explanation might be that your buddy who was spotting for you might have been making a mistake (especially if he wasn't particularly experienced as a spotter - for example he might not have been properly lined up behind you or not understood how to interpret what he saw if was was at a different location; also if your bullet passes through a wooden frame it can deflect a surprising amount before it hits the backstop)

Your scope does have hunting style adjustment knobs but they are a nice improvement over the usual "adjust with a coin" type. It is quite nice to be able to use your fingertips to make changes.

The main difference that target scope knobs have is that they are numbered, so that you can record in your data book that (say) your 100y elevation is "5.0 minutes" and your wind zero is at "3.5". Without numbers to record, you can still keep things straight but you need to always keep track (in your book!) about what sight changes you make, so you can always get back to wherever it is you want to be. This is where a dab of liquid paper (say) can help you to always find your 100 yard zero.

Well said.

 

[uchi]

thats great information, and lots of it at that, at first you had lost me but i re read the moa portions several times and im starting to get a better understanding of them finally. theres alot of information that you provided and its all very useful and im sure ill end up referring to it sooner than later. i may go back to the range alone and just work on where im hitting, set the gun up and play with the elevation and see if any land at 200 and then figure out where the hell im hitting. that was his second official time at a range and first time spotting so like you said, a very good chance he wasnt seeing the hits properly, and even if i hit low the dirt would still go over the target. and ill form a log book this weekend if i go out aswell.

just reading back to your reply again about changing the distance and 1/4 moa drops and what not and its really starting to sink in that reaching out far requires alot more than just pulling a trigger and dropping the elevation on the scope.

now back to the scope for a minute, is it possible to upgrade my scope with target style turrets or am i better off just upgrading to a better scope? i like the idea of having numbers vs notches. hell i may just drop a little coin on a better scope with mil dots anyways. id like something that can adjust up to 30x i think.

also mine has a dot and a marking to set the zero, thats already done, so if i get out on sunday ill see if i managed to set it up without screwing it up

thanks again for all your help

 

[hend238]

thats great information, and lots of it at that, at first you had lost me but i re read the moa portions several times and im starting to get a better understanding of them finally. theres alot of information that you provided and its all very useful and im sure ill end up referring to it sooner than later. i may go back to the range alone and just work on where im hitting, set the gun up and play with the elevation and see if any land at 200 and then figure out where the hell im hitting. that was his second official time at a range and first time spotting so like you said, a very good chance he wasnt seeing the hits properly, and even if i hit low the dirt would still go over the target. and ill form a log book this weekend if i go out aswell.

just reading back to your reply again about changing the distance and 1/4 moa drops and what not and its really starting to sink in that reaching out far requires alot more than just pulling a trigger and dropping the elevation on the scope.



now back to the scope for a minute, is it possible to upgrade my scope with target style turrets or am i better off just upgrading to a better scope? i like the idea of having numbers vs notches. hell i may just drop a little coin on a better scope with mil dots anyways. id like something that can adjust up to 30x i think.

also mine has a dot and a marking to set the zero, thats already done, so if i get out on sunday ill see if i managed to set it up without screwing it up

thanks again for all your help

Don't waste your money upgrading your current scope. I used a Dusk till Dawn for years when I first started shooting and it worked just fine. Though not a very good scope in the grand scheme of things it will work fine for what you are currently using it for. Save your money and when you're ready to or have the opportunity to shoot out beyond 200 yards on a regular basis, buy yourself a better scope with the options you like. You'll get things figured out very shortly and will begin to realize what you want in a scope.

I concur with the others that it is very strange that you are shooting over the target at 200 yards with a 100 yard zero. If for the life of you, you just can't get on paper at 200, put up a much larger target. I mean lean a 4x8 piece of plywood against the target stands, draw an aiming point on it near the bottom and pull the trigger. At least that way you should see your point of impact and will have something to go by. It will also save you lots of ammo and time. Once on target it's easy to make the adjustments or figure out if something is wrong. Without changing your elevation and using the same point of aim, shoot a 3 to 5 shot group at 200 to see if your gun groups all shots more or less together or if it is spraying them all over the place. Once you've established that your gun is shooting consistently adjust your elevation as desired. Don't forget to mark the holes in the target/board so you don't loose track what was what. If you can't seem to shoot with any kind of consistency perhaps there is a problem with your equipment.

I had a brand new rifle once that I just couldn't hit the 100 yard target with. I couldn't figure out why until I put up a 1000 yard target at 50 yards. When I pulled the trigger and waked down to look at the target the hole was a nice little keyhole. Meaning the bullet was tumbling end over end in flight and hit the target sideways. After a little investigation I noted the last 4" of the rifling was not in a spiral but straight! The bullet jackets were being stripped off and sending the core god knows where!

Anyway my point is do what it takes to put your shots on target so you have something to work with. You'll waste a lot of time and ammo trying to guess where your bullet is going. Of course this is all just my humble opinion.

Good luck and welcome to the addiction!

 

[rnbra-shooter]

@uchi if target shooting appeals to you you might want to contact your local Provincial Rifle Association and try out shooting at 300-600 yards/metres (and in some places out to 900m/1000y). Not only do you get to shoot on great range facilities but you also have experienced shooters to help you out with stuff like this.

Next time you are at 200y you might try shooting directly at the backstop without a target in front of you. Aim at a clump of dirt and then look to see where your bullet splash is (it ought to be within a foot of where you are aiming).

It is possible on some scopes to have the factory install "target turrets" on a hunting scope. I am not sure if that is available for Bushnell or not (perhaps not). Might be most effective to sell the scope you have and buy the scope you want.

mil dots are really cool and fun. Buy a scope with a mil dot reticle if it appeals to you. For what it is worth it usually isn't actually very much use at all; but if it appeals to you enough go ahead and get one anyhow. (As far as ranging a target goes, a laser rangefinder is far more civilized ;-)

If you're mostly interested in target shooting you'll probably find a scope of at least 15X to be most helpful (and 24X or 30X probably moreso). This magnification is regardless of the range you plan on shooting - it's a lot easier to do 100y load development with a 30X scope than a 12X scope.

 

[hend238]

@uchi if target shooting appeals to you you might want to contact your local Provincial Rifle Association and try out shooting at 300-600 yards/metres (and in some places out to 900m/1000y). Not only do you get to shoot on great range facilities but you also have experienced shooters to help you out with stuff like this.

Next time you are at 200y you might try shooting directly at the backstop without a target in front of you. Aim at a clump of dirt and then look to see where your bullet splash is (it ought to be within a foot of where you are aiming).

It is possible on some scopes to have the factory install "target turrets" on a hunting scope. I am not sure if that is available for Bushnell or not (perhaps not). Might be most effective to sell the scope you have and buy the scope you want.

mil dots are really cool and fun. Buy a scope with a mil dot reticle if it appeals to you. For what it is worth it usually isn't actually very much use at all; but if it appeals to you enough go ahead and get one anyhow. (As far as ranging a target goes, a laser rangefinder is far more civilized ;-)

If you're mostly interested in target shooting you'll probably find a scope of at least 15X to be most helpful (and 24X or 30X probably moreso). This magnification is regardless of the range you plan on shooting - it's a lot easier to do 100y load development with a 30X scope than a 12X scope.

I'll add to that if I may...If you buy a scope capable of 24x or 30x zoom make sure you get a variable. I only have a 6.5-20x on one of my competition guns and sometimes when shooting at long range say 800 or 1000 yards for example the mirage is so bad at high magnification I cannot see the bulls eye or least it is very difficult. Rolling the scope say back to 14x helps a lot with the problems mirage creates when shooting long distances. Something to keep in mind if you're going to get into target shooting as rnbra-shooter mentioned. It is inevitable that you will want to shoot further and further.

 

[uchi]

Don't waste your money upgrading your current scope. I used a Dusk till Dawn for years when I first started shooting and it worked just fine. Though not a very good scope in the grand scheme of things it will work fine for what you are currently using it for. Save your money and when you're ready to or have the opportunity to shoot out beyond 200 yards on a regular basis, buy yourself a better scope with the options you like. You'll get things figured out very shortly and will begin to realize what you want in a scope.

I concur with the others that it is very strange that you are shooting over the target at 200 yards with a 100 yard zero. If for the life of you, you just can't get on paper at 200, put up a much larger target. I mean lean a 4x8 piece of plywood against the target stands, draw an aiming point on it near the bottom and pull the trigger. At least that way you should see your point of impact and will have something to go by. It will also save you lots of ammo and time. Once on target it's easy to make the adjustments or figure out if something is wrong. Without changing your elevation and using the same point of aim, shoot a 3 to 5 shot group at 200 to see if your gun groups all shots more or less together or if it is spraying them all over the place. Once you've established that your gun is shooting consistently adjust your elevation as desired. Don't forget to mark the holes in the target/board so you don't loose track what was what. If you can't seem to shoot with any kind of consistency perhaps there is a problem with your equipment.

I had a brand new rifle once that I just couldn't hit the 100 yard target with. I couldn't figure out why until I put up a 1000 yard target at 50 yards. When I pulled the trigger and waked down to look at the target the hole was a nice little keyhole. Meaning the bullet was tumbling end over end in flight and hit the target sideways. After a little investigation I noted the last 4" of the rifling was not in a spiral but straight! The bullet jackets were being stripped off and sending the core god knows where!

Anyway my point is do what it takes to put your shots on target so you have something to work with. You'll waste a lot of time and ammo trying to guess where your bullet is going. Of course this is all just my humble opinion.

Good luck and welcome to the addiction!

hey thanks for the reply, unfortunatly at the range i use i think they may frown on me using a piece of plywood and unfortunatly i dont have a place to shoot that far locally. but i think i may have a couple guys spot for me next time out to see where im actually hitting. chances are its user error more than anything. the gun is accurate. the guy who set it up for me buried 3 in just about the same hole at 50, and it was tight to the point where it looked like a larger caliber had gone through the paper than what it did. another one of the guys i shot with posted a much better group than i did at 100,

this was my first time to 100 with the r700

the ear and chin were likely flinches, the two that were in the center were both planned and both hit the same spot, the forehead was also planned and it hit where i wanted it to. again that was the very first time to 100 with this gun, ive used my sks out that far and didnt hit #### with it so this was a nice change.

more than likely its got to do with me. i made another post about the barrel jumping and from what one of the guys suggested it sounds like my body position is way off, i was sitting at about a 45 degree angle to the gun, ill try getting right behind it next time out see if that changes anything. so ill keep practicing with this thing for now.

as much as i hate to spend the money on a better scope i feel like i may benefit from learning on an actual target scope and not having to learn how to use a target scope with moa markings later on if that makes any sense.

adjustable is a must aswell, mine is actually 4-12 i though 6-12 last night when i replied, so the next one needs to be similar.

would i benefit form hitting the 100y targets at the 4x setting to work on steadying my shots?

what gun were you shooting that wasnt rifled right? youd think something like that wouldnt pass a quality inspection.

@uchi if target shooting appeals to you you might want to contact your local Provincial Rifle Association and try out shooting at 300-600 yards/metres (and in some places out to 900m/1000y). Not only do you get to shoot on great range facilities but you also have experienced shooters to help you out with stuff like this.

Next time you are at 200y you might try shooting directly at the backstop without a target in front of you. Aim at a clump of dirt and then look to see where your bullet splash is (it ought to be within a foot of where you are aiming).

It is possible on some scopes to have the factory install "target turrets" on a hunting scope. I am not sure if that is available for Bushnell or not (perhaps not). Might be most effective to sell the scope you have and buy the scope you want.

mil dots are really cool and fun. Buy a scope with a mil dot reticle if it appeals to you. For what it is worth it usually isn't actually very much use at all; but if it appeals to you enough go ahead and get one anyhow. (As far as ranging a target goes, a laser rangefinder is far more civilized ;-)

If you're mostly interested in target shooting you'll probably find a scope of at least 15X to be most helpful (and 24X or 30X probably moreso). This magnification is regardless of the range you plan on shooting - it's a lot easier to do 100y load development with a 30X scope than a 12X scope.

someone had suggested one of the places in that list and im taking some serious thought into making a weekend trip out of it very soon with a couple friends.

what i might do is take your suggestion and use the bipod and a block for the back, figure out where its aiming hold her tight and fire off a shot to see where its hitting without looking down the scope. just to make sure im not hitting the ground and having it bounce or clearing the dirt altogether.

laser range finders are so expensive, i prefer to bring an asian buddy whos good with numbers to crunch them for me lol.

im keeping my eyes open for a nicely priced unit. i wont need it just yet but once i start reaching out as far as you guys are going itll be nice to not have to guess.

what do you recommend for a scope that has atleast a 20x adjustable magnification and wont cost me over $500? preferably something in 40mm to allow me to use the same rings i have now. i wont think a 50mm would fit my rings.

I'll add to that if I may...If you buy a scope capable of 24x or 30x zoom make sure you get a variable. I only have a 6.5-20x on one of my competition guns and sometimes when shooting at long range say 800 or 1000 yards for example the mirage is so bad at high magnification I cannot see the bulls eye or least it is very difficult. Rolling the scope say back to 14x helps a lot with the problems mirage creates when shooting long distances. Something to keep in mind if you're going to get into target shooting as rnbra-shooter mentioned. It is inevitable that you will want to shoot further and further.

thats the truth, i wanna try getting further and further, ideally the goal is to hit 1000y in years to come.

its exciting to be able to hit something that far. even my buddy who was spotting for me, went shooting once, didnt like it, had no interest in shooting, i took him out for my bachelor party on saturday, he put some rounds through my 700 and now hes signing up for his rpal and hes already looking at rifles. he hit a target, hit it good at that and was impressed with his results and wants to start shooting now. lol. its addictive thats for sure.

 

[hend238]

Barrel jumping?? Do you mean that when you fire the gun, it jumps out of the bags? I have a very light 7mm Mag and it does that all the time if I don't get a good hold of it with no affect on accuracy. In fact that rifle is scary accurate. When a rifle is fired the barrel actually whips around in a sort of circle due to the torque created by the bullet spinning down the barrel. It's not uncommon for a light gun in a powerful cartridge to jump when firing from a bench rest. As for your 45 deg position...It is important for proper body position when shooting but the key is to be consistent. You must position your body exactly the same way every time for best results. This is of course only one of many points in target shooting but it is an important one. Remember consistency is everything.

Hey if you want to go and buy a new scope don't let me stop you. It's lots of fun! I doubt you'd benefit from reducing the magnification to 4x. Not at the yardage you're shooting at and what you're trying to accomplish. Set your scope to the max and let her fly. Just a thought though...How are you setting up on the bench? Front rest and rear bag? Front rest only and shouldering the rifle? I'm curious and it would help analyze your results knowing the platform you're shooting from.

The rifle with the botched rifling was a Savage. Ya one would think that QC would catch that. I did get a replacement and it shoots great!

Do not buy a cheap range finder! They are not accurate and are junk. Look for old obsolete models from Lieca, Swarovski, Leupold etc on the EE. Everyone wants the latest and greatest models so the old ones go for great prices sometimes. I picked up a Leica for $175 last year that once cost over $1000. It ranges to 1200m with less than 5% error and I confirmed that with one of those walk behind do-dads. That was a once in a life time deal I think but good deals are always out there you just have to check every day cause great deals on this forum are gone in a heartbeat.

As for what scope to buy....? Go for a Leupold. I think they are the best value. A good balance between price and performance. You should have no problem finding what you need for around $500 on the optics EE. Just be patient. http://www.leupold.com/hunting-and-shooting/products/scopes/vx-ii-riflescopes/vx-ii-6-18x40mm-adj-obj-target/ Check out the link and then window shop to see what is available.

 

[AKD]

Honestly buds, if you wana get in to target shooting buy a new rig. Save the rifle settup you have for hunting. It's a great hunting settup you have there.

Look at the cals .308, .243, 6mmbr, or even .223.
A savage 12fv is a great starter gun with good accuracy and only cost a bit more than $600.
For a scope try a bushnell 3200 10x mil dot. They cost about $300 new but u can get good deals here in the EE.

That combo will work for you for the next 2 or 3 years + depending how searious you wana get in to the sport. .... After a while it's pretty much no less than $1500 rifles and near $1000 scopes.

Shooting is a great sport. You clearly seam to have the interest and willing to learn. Now you just need practice.

 

[uchi]

Barrel jumping?? Do you mean that when you fire the gun, it jumps out of the bags? I have a very light 7mm Mag and it does that all the time if I don't get a good hold of it with no affect on accuracy. In fact that rifle is scary accurate. When a rifle is fired the barrel actually whips around in a sort of circle due to the torque created by the bullet spinning down the barrel. It's not uncommon for a light gun in a powerful cartridge to jump when firing from a bench rest. As for your 45 deg position...It is important for proper body position when shooting but the key is to be consistent. You must position your body exactly the same way every time for best results. This is of course only one of many points in target shooting but it is an important one. Remember consistency is everything.

Hey if you want to go and buy a new scope don't let me stop you. It's lots of fun! I doubt you'd benefit from reducing the magnification to 4x. Not at the yardage you're shooting at and what you're trying to accomplish. Set your scope to the max and let her fly. Just a thought though...How are you setting up on the bench? Front rest and rear bag? Front rest only and shouldering the rifle? I'm curious and it would help analyze your results knowing the platform you're shooting from.

The rifle with the botched rifling was a Savage. Ya one would think that QC would catch that. I did get a replacement and it shoots great!

Do not buy a cheap range finder! They are not accurate and are junk. Look for old obsolete models from Lieca, Swarovski, Leupold etc on the EE. Everyone wants the latest and greatest models so the old ones go for great prices sometimes. I picked up a Leica for $175 last year that once cost over $1000. It ranges to 1200m with less than 5% error and I confirmed that with one of those walk behind do-dads. That was a once in a life time deal I think but good deals are always out there you just have to check every day cause great deals on this forum are gone in a heartbeat.

As for what scope to buy....? Go for a Leupold. I think they are the best value. A good balance between price and performance. You should have no problem finding what you need for around $500 on the optics EE. Just be patient. http://www.leupold.com/hunting-and-shooting/products/scopes/vx-ii-riflescopes/vx-ii-6-18x40mm-adj-obj-target/ Check out the link and then window shop to see what is available.

ill give you 150 for that range finder, its used and old and you want something newer

i used the bi pod and shouldered the rear, actually my buddy sent me a pic f me shooting

i was trying to stabilize the front from jumping around. it would go up and turn right, i found it was worse when i had my left shoulder more forward. so straightening out should help me, but the problem i was having is i couldnt get close enough to the scope to get a clear view through the scope without a little body twist. i was also shooting with my left arm under my right in a ##### cross trying to stabilize the rear of the gun a little bit. thinking back to it i think that was causing me more harm than good in the accuracy department.

good to know about the scopes, i just spent over an hour in ee optics looking for something that may tickle me the right way. slim pickins right now. but ill keep on it.

ive thought about buying a scope on ebay but its so full of chinese knock off everythings that im worried about buying something and having the lens pop out.

nice that they covered it and didnt try to find a way to blame you, that should have been about as obvious as sending out a rifle without the bolt in it.

 

[hend238]

Honestly buds, if you wana get in to target shooting buy a new rig. Save the rifle settup you have for hunting. It's a great hunting settup you have there.

Look at the cals .308, .243, 6mmbr, or even .223.
A savage 12fv is a great starter gun with good accuracy and only cost a bit more than $600.
For a scope try a bushnell 3200 10x mil dot. They cost about $300 new but u can get good deals here in the EE.

That combo will work for you for the next 2 or 3 years + depending how searious you wana get in to the sport. .... After a while it's pretty much no less than $1500 rifles and near $1000 scopes.

Shooting is a great sport. You clearly seam to have the interest and willing to learn. Now you just need practice.

 

[uchi]

Honestly buds, if you wana get in to target shooting buy a new rig. Save the rifle settup you have for hunting. It's a great hunting settup you have there.

Look at the cals .308, .243, 6mmbr, or even .223.
A savage 12fv is a great starter gun with good accuracy and only cost a bit more than $600.
For a scope try a bushnell 3200 10x mil dot. They cost about $300 new but u can get good deals here in the EE.

That combo will work for you for the next 2 or 3 years + depending how searious you wana get in to the sport. .... After a while it's pretty much no less than $1500 rifles and near $1000 scopes.

Shooting is a great sport. You clearly seam to have the interest and willing to learn. Now you just need practice.

ill take that into consideration when i buy another rifle in the future. something a little more capable perhaps. just so i know, whats the draw back to the r700? i know its a large caliber im playing with an i likely shouldnt have started with it. but what would make the savage 12fv better than the r700? im just wondering for my own personal satisfaction. i know alot of guys have a personal preference and alot of guys are brand loyal as in any hobby. there does seem to be a fair bit of versatility on this forum where guys like different makes of guns which is a good sign to me when choosing a new gun.

 

[AKD]

The only advantage IMO to a savage is the flooting bolt face if your firing factory ammo. Once you reload and neck size it's all the same.

Remingtons are tack drivers and the chevy v8 engine of the rifle world. Tons of aftermarket upgrades and every gun smith knows them well.

Opinions are what they are tho. Everyones got one. That's just mine.

Savage rifles people love and hate but one thing you can't deny is there a great bang for ur buck.

Remingtons 5R is also IMO the best factory target rifle you can buy until you step up to the $3000 line up like the HS. When you get to that level I think a custom is personally were it's at.

ps. I shoot a Remington

 

[hend238]

ill give you 150 for that range finder, its used and old and you want something newer



i used the bi pod and shouldered the rear, actually my buddy sent me a pic f me shooting

i was trying to stabilize the front from jumping around. it would go up and turn right, i found it was worse when i had my left shoulder more forward. so straightening out should help me, but the problem i was having is i couldnt get close enough to the scope to get a clear view through the scope without a little body twist. i was also shooting with my left arm under my right in a ##### cross trying to stabilize the rear of the gun a little bit. thinking back to it i think that was causing me more harm than good in the accuracy department.


good to know about the scopes, i just spent over an hour in ee optics looking for something that may tickle me the right way. slim pickins right now. but ill keep on it.

ive thought about buying a scope on ebay but its so full of chinese knock off everythings that im worried about buying something and having the lens pop out.

nice that they covered it and didnt try to find a way to blame you, that should have been about as obvious as sending out a rifle without the bolt in it.

It would be better to let your gun do what it wants. Don't fight it. Get yourself comfortable and stabilize the butt as best you can. With the butt into your shoulder as usual, curl your left arm back under the butt and cradle the butt in the crook of your thumb resting the hand comfortably against your body below your shoulder. It's kind of tough to describe. Play with this position until it feels natural and secure. Let the rifle jump all it wants. Don't worry about it. Remember, try to hold the rifle the same way for each shot. Better yet get a rear sand bag or something for a more secure set up.

I don't buy scopes off ebay any more. More and more people don't want to ship them to Canada anyways. It sucks but such is life. Besides I'd rather support CGN and its members.

Oh and not a chance on my range finder.

 

[uchi]

that position description was pretty good, its similar to how i was holding it except i had my left arm under my right and was using it to support my arm and butt of the gun to keep it level with the target. does it matter the angle im at towards the gun? whatever feels good?

this is all great info guys, i thought i had to keep it from moving otherwise it would cost me accuracy. i appreciate you guys taking the time to write the information out and to reply to me.

AKD, im one of those guys who usually tries to use something a little different, something less common, and it usually costs me more in the long run because i dont want to follow the norm, in this case i saw the 700 was a popular choice with alot of people and the different variations are used by military and police with high levels of success so i figured id jump on the band wagon and atleast take the easy route for once in my life

reloading is on my list, ive looked into it, ive been doing my reading, and i dont think im ready to take the plunge just yet. im waiting for a buddy to get his reloading rig setup so i can go and get some hands on experience with him before i consider spending the money on gear.

hend238, i bought a red dot for my shotgun, not sure what the hell it was for, but it was for the smaller sized rail. so im guessing it was a toy red dot, wasnt listed as one, and the seller didnt have the size listed. so now it sits in my office, pretty to look at, but completely useless as nothing i own not even my airsoft or paintball stuff accepts the smaller rail. so i know how you feel, mind you im sure my investment wasnt as large as yours. regardless ebay is good for certain things and s**t for others.

since were talking sand bags. can i just make my own out of some sort of canvas bag and fill it with play ground sand or is there more to it?

alright, $125 for that range finder, final offer

 

[rnbra-shooter]

+1 on everything @hend238 writes about holding and shooting your rifle. If you hold the rifle steady and break the trigger cleanly, your accuracy won't be hurt no matter how much to rifle jumps up and flies about. There might be other non-accuracy related reasons to try to control the post-shot rifle jump better (for example if you are trying to spot your own hits through your rifle scope, which you can do at 600 yards or more).

If the scope is a bit too far away from you there are a few things you can do to improve this. I see from the photo that you can't slide the scope further aft in the rings. You could get a different front base that will allow the front ring to move aft half an inch or an inch. A simpler and cheaper fix (and one that I would do right away) is to simply unscrew your recoil pad; this will move the scope, trigger and bolt half or three quarters of an inch closer to you.

 

[uchi]

Ill be honest with you i enjoy that pad. Shooting my buddies enfield kicks the crap out of my shoulder i imagine this thing would do the same. Ill pull it off next time out and see if it makes a difference.

You mention trigger pull. I've got an x mark pro on my gun. Would i benefit more from having the lightest pull i can set it to or should i firm it up? it looks like its a 3.5 lb pull and i can turn it down to about 1.5

 

[rnbra-shooter]

It may (or may not) be more uncomfortable shooting without the recoil pad. Regardless, you will know whether having the stock that much shorter is better for your shooter, or perhaps even shorter yet or not quite so short. If you do need the pad for comfort, then after you have figured out the length you want for the butt stock you can then take out a trusty hacksaw and cut off the appropriate amount, then screw the recoil pad back on. Presto, better length and back to (relative) comfort.

Cleanness of trigger break is what is most important (moreso than weight of trigger pull). Having said that it is easier to learn to pull a lighter trigger than a heavier trigger, so if your trigger can be safely adjusted to 1.5# then by all means do so. Eventually a shooter can learn to pull a heavy trigger well but this is very much a learned skill and it takes time (for me, it took at least five years before I could feel confident that I could pull a 3.5# trigger basically as well as a 1.5# trigger)