Zombie Apocalypse

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misanthropist said:
The .223/5.56 should therefore be highly effective. And certainly much more effective than a .22. If you feel that the .223 is possibly not enough...then there is ABSOLUTELY no argument for the .22lr.
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Before you get too excited with lots of caps and all :p, I'm not saying the .223 is not enough for head shots. I'm saying the .22LR is enough. Why? Because we're talking mushy head zombies, and not living, breathing humans, wearing helmets or otherwise. And, to boot, there are other benefits of the .22LR that make any performance issues (and I'm arguing they are marginal given the nature of the target) pale by comparison.
 
It all depends on the type of zombie. if it is the classic slow moving moaning type than a blunt object or sword is the best weapon. If they are the ultra fast hyper zombies then we are screwed no matter what firearm you have if you are caught in the open you will be swamped and eaten.

No as far as the AR's go, why do people go nuts for them in a zombie situation? There are far better choices than an AR, It is not the end all be all rifle that some think it is.How many AR do you see in zombie movie's? Only the dead soldiers half eaten have them hmmmm.

To many fan boys who only own a AR platform therefor they think it is the best.

Also the .223 is a great round but what if Zombies are all around you headshot after head shot will be a very tough challenge and body shots with .223 will not even make them flinch.
You need something a little bigger in the 7.62+ range that can make them into twitchers floping on the ground if headshots cant be had.

No need to flame this is all for fun.
 
Juster said:
Again, it doesn't matter how many thousands of rounds you have after a 22LR fails to stop.

Again, getting shot through the crossword puzzle part of the brain doesn't necessarily kill you, viz Gabrielle Giffords:
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You need to do extensive damage to the brain with every shot. 22LR simply doesn't have the energy. Fragmenting 5.56x45 is pretty much minimum.
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with this though we are dealing with the human brain which differs from the z brain, in function not make up. if we go with the only resource we have available, fiction books and movies, a simple stab to the head of a zombie is sufficient to kill it. Therefore it is from what we can gather not shot placement that counts on the brain but just getting a projectile into the head that would do the job.
 
misanthropist said:
.22lr is not a proven RELIABLE killer.

It is a proven UNRELIABLE killer.

It is therefore a very poor choice.
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shots to the body i completely agree with you....I would beg to differ greatly with regards to head shots.

little piece of semi unrelated trivia: the 5.56 as the round was actually never intended to kill, but to wound thus taking 5 people off the battlefield instead of just the one.

I'm sure you could find a greater percentage of people surviving a .22 to the brain than a 5.56, but you could find examples of both. Also with regards to survivability of a head shot, you're looking at it from a human perspective, with all of our powers of healing both naturally and assisted, as well as the will to live which is undeniably a huge factor in surviving a catastrophic brain injury. The zombie will have none of these factors influencing their survival.

truly your only argument is skull penetration, which admittedly is a fair one, but one that is rendered moot by the speed and accuracy that a double tap can be accomplished with a .22.
example: you are within 20 feet of a zombie, you engage with a head shot that fails to penetrate because of angle, unnatural bone density of the skull...take your pick. The force of that round, even if it did not penetrate into grey matter, is going to crack that skull all to hell, giving the follow up shot much less resistance to pass into the brain thus destroying the threat. Also the force of the blow may knock the zombie off its feet, allowing a quick advance and pointblank shot to be accomplished.
 
A riot shield and a cutting weapon for head chopping!

If the zombie is a virus infected human, you can assume it functions llike a human - but what if the zombie is really a creature possessed by demonic force????:onCrack:
 
heavy metal said:
shots to the body i completely agree with you....I would beg to differ greatly with regards to head shots.

little piece of semi unrelated trivia: the 5.56 as the round was actually never intended to kill, but to wound thus taking 5 people off the battlefield instead of just the one.

I'm sure you could find a greater percentage of people surviving a .22 to the brain than a 5.56, but you could find examples of both. Also with regards to survivability of a head shot, you're looking at it from a human perspective, with all of our powers of healing both naturally and assisted, as well as the will to live which is undeniably a huge factor in surviving a catastrophic brain injury. The zombie will have none of these factors influencing their survival.

truly your only argument is skull penetration, which admittedly is a fair one, but one that is rendered moot by the speed and accuracy that a double tap can be accomplished with a .22.
example: you are within 20 feet of a zombie, you engage with a head shot that fails to penetrate because of angle, unnatural bone density of the skull...take your pick. The force of that round, even if it did not penetrate into grey matter, is going to crack that skull all to hell, giving the follow up shot much less resistance to pass into the brain thus destroying the threat. Also the force of the blow may knock the zombie off its feet, allowing a quick advance and pointblank shot to be accomplished.
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The bolded section about sums it up. The underlined section is good evidence for something...but probably not what you think.


Finally, I would be very interested to see your source on the "take 5 people off the battlefield" comment...I did not realize there was anyone left who believed that. Nice to know that even in the age of easy online research and thoroughly documented, accredited studies, there are still ancient gun store rumours floating around.
 
Nisser17 said:
No as far as the AR's go, why do people go nuts for them in a zombie situation? There are far better choices than an AR, It is not the end all be all rifle that some think it is.How many AR do you see in zombie movie's? Only the dead soldiers half eaten have them hmmmm.

To many fan boys who only own a AR platform therefor they think it is the best.


No need to flame this is all for fun.
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This is not a flame, only a question and my opinion of the AR.

What do you have against the AR?
It must be reliable since the US and Canadian military have been using it for years and haven't been able to find anything that is a big enough improvement in reliability or function to justify changing to something else. If there was something significantly better they would be using it.
What's not to like? Reliable, high capacity, easy to maintain, light ammunition.
I'm sure not going to rely on an sks or cz858 if the day ever does come. I'm going to carry something that has proven itself in combat on numerous occasions over the last 40+ years. It may be dated but it still hasn't been improved upon enough to be retired.
I do agree that something in 7.62 is going to do more damage to a body when hit but we are talking zombies and therefore headshots which 223 will do just as well as 7.62x51 with half the weight in your pack or twice the amount for the same weight.
I doubt there are going to be many people with a bunker to protect them so it's going to be a keep moving scenario where it's what your carrying and what you can find along the way that is going to keep you alive. All those dead soldiers with AR's will have ammo and mags for you:)

When the zombies come let's all get together and do some experiments and determine the best round and platform and sight combination for dealing with the threat. Then we'll know for sure and we can adjust our strategies accordingly.

I'm looking forward to Z day but until then I'll just keep wasting my days at work and playing with my rifles and pistols on my days off.
 
misanthropist said:
Consider for a moment that we are applying human biology to killing zombies...therefore only living, breathing, humans who have been shot IN THE HEAD count.

I don't know what percentage of people you think survive .223 head shots, but I assure you it's fairly small.

Almost everyone shot who gets shot in the head with a 5.56 round immediately has more important things to do than continue breathing. Popular options, I believe, include collapsing, twitching, and emitting a surprisingly pinkish, foamy looking fluid from the head. That is not to say that absolutely everyone who gets shot in the head with a .223 takes up the full-time, demanding hobby of lying on the ground and slowly cooling (or in some cases warming) to the ambient temperature, but if you think that the percentage of people who get instantly turned off of remaining ambulatory and aware is the same among people shot in the head with a .22 and people shot in the head with a 5.56 I would suggest that you are not 100% up on your terminal ballistics research.

The issues 5.56 has relate more to marginal shot placement than ineffective terminal performance when shot placement is correct. And considering that we will all stipulate that only head shots count when it comes to zombies, we have effectively stipulated that shot placement is relatively good.

The .223/5.56 should therefore be highly effective. And certainly much more effective than a .22. If you feel that the .223 is possibly not enough...then there is ABSOLUTELY no argument for the .22lr.
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True but I have yet too see a 223 round do this!
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you people need Jeesbus


and for what its worth with the 5.56 and headshots...

a friend of mine was a medic in the army, she got shot in the head on a live fire exercise, required a number of stitches and knocked her out cold.. but it was a glancing shot..

so even if you dont kill someone with a 5.56 headshot they will likely not be bothering you anyway, and probably bleed out.. ( Virus Zombies we're talking )
 
*realistically*, 12gauge 7+1 shot such as the Mossberg persuader or if you can afford the 14shot shotguns one of those.

shotgun gives you some room for error in aiming and you can switch up the types of shots,slugs, etc. They are also easy to maintain and operate, and ammo is everywhere. Even birdshot at close range will obliterate a head.

I have nothing against AR's, 223s, 7.62x39, sks's, ak's, etc., but they are pinned or worse cut at 5 rounds, and you have to maintain good clean accurate shots, and over time fatigue will get too you and your accuracy will go down. With a shotgun accuracy is not as big of a deal, you point and shoot.
 
Nisser17 said:
No as far as the AR's go, why do people go nuts for them in a zombie situation? There are far better choices than an AR, It is not the end all be all rifle that some think it is.

To many fan boys who only own a AR platform therefor they think it is the best.
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What? Seriously? A better choice than an AR? Like what?.......
What else has high ammo capacity, quick reloads and easily accurate out to 600m.
ummmm....nothing.
 
For all those saying 22LR does not have the necessary killing power, i ask you to please volunteer to be shot in the head with a 22LR round. Hey, if its not going to kill you, you shouldn't have an issue.

22LR is a proven killer, suppressed Ruger MK II pistols were used by the US Navy SEALs in the 1990s.
 
rivetc78 said:
What? Seriously? A better choice than an AR? Like what?.......
What else has high ammo capacity, quick reloads and easily accurate out to 600m.
ummmm....nothing.
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unless you live in the states, you are capped at 5 rounds, hardly high ammo capacity.
 
fyrious said:
unless you live in the states, you are capped at 5 rounds, hardly high ammo capacity.
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I don't know about anyone else but about 10 seconds for each mag with a cordless drill to remove the stupid rivets and multiply that by my 20 mags and about 3-5 min later I'm filling them to the capacity the lord intended them to carry. These stupid rules that don't affect criminals in any way will be gone.
When Z day comes there are no more rules to follow besides rule number 1: survive.
I'll make up the rest of the rules as I go.
 
fyrious said:
For all those saying 22LR does not have the necessary killing power, i ask you to please volunteer to be shot in the head with a 22LR round. Hey, if its not going to kill you, you shouldn't have an issue.

22LR is a proven killer, suppressed Ruger MK II pistols were used by the US Navy SEALs in the 1990s.
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Point me to a personal protection expert who maintains that 22LR is the ideal defensive round. A pointed stick is a proven killer.


Folks, there are a lot of different movies out there, some with tougher Zombies than others. You don't want to be the guy who finds out that he is up against resilient Zombaroonies.
So friends give friends a shotgun, or at least a 5.56x45. You know it makes sense.
 
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