I Screwed Up, and I Knew Better !!!
- Thread starter c-fbmi
- Start date
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
For decades, it's been preached that big game bullets must hold together for penetration and when we have one that shows consistent performance without disintegrating, they still complain and search for scapegoats.
People are funny........
I've recently purchased some 160 gr TTSXs for the 8x57 and 150 gr TSXs for the 303 British. Haven't loaded any yet. Digging through my stuff I found a couple of unexpected boxes of 8mm 200 grain partitions. Sounds like I should stick with those. My interest in the Barnes bullets is twofold, flattening the trajectory for coyotes and my wife has expressed concern over lead in our venison (we eat a lot of it, I have no idea if this is an issue but in marriage it is better to be happy than to be right).
If you shoot bullets constructed of lead that fragment, you will have lead in your meat. No matter how carefully you trim, particles can migrate up to 18". Whether that lead is in enough quantity to be harmful is open to speculation.
You're kidding right???
I know a handful of adult hunters who get more excited and flustered than an properly trained young person I have ever seen. IME kids that are practiced and trained perform very well at the moment of truth.
They don't goose step do they
This is a TTSX. Just what is wrong with it's performance?Something I'm missing? Over to You or to H.C. for smart ass fodder
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Why not bring him? The hunt means more to youth than to anyone. #### happens when you hunt, except on the Internet where every hunter has has 19 successive dead-right-theres. 
I'm an ardent fan of Barnes, and admittedly I can see a bit of what Doug is saying. I accidentally neck shot a large animal last year, yep #### happens, I knicked a bush on the way to the animal and whether I was that far off to start, or whether I can blame the bush, things ended up way off course. I was shooting "junk" Hornady Interlocs, and the wound and effect were impressive and still killed the animal quickly enough despite piss poor placement. Barnes won't have such a radiating effect and the animal likely would have ran, but an A-Frame likely wouldn't act any different than Barnes either.
I still choose Barnes as they are lead free, and with good placement do what I appreciate in a bullet, that is consistent deep penetration I can rely on. They certainly are not a "shock" bullet however and come with a set of advantages, and disadvantages like all choices do.
I'm an ardent fan of Barnes, and admittedly I can see a bit of what Doug is saying. I accidentally neck shot a large animal last year, yep #### happens, I knicked a bush on the way to the animal and whether I was that far off to start, or whether I can blame the bush, things ended up way off course. I was shooting "junk" Hornady Interlocs, and the wound and effect were impressive and still killed the animal quickly enough despite piss poor placement. Barnes won't have such a radiating effect and the animal likely would have ran, but an A-Frame likely wouldn't act any different than Barnes either.
I still choose Barnes as they are lead free, and with good placement do what I appreciate in a bullet, that is consistent deep penetration I can rely on. They certainly are not a "shock" bullet however and come with a set of advantages, and disadvantages like all choices do.
- Location
- AB foothills
Deleted
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I just waded in without reading through, so to the thread forgive my Johnny Latelyness. Just caught the drift of where it was all going. There are certainly different levels of hunters, and believe both sides of the argument here are honest. Problem comes a lot of the time when people aren't in their back yard, are on a paid hunt with literally perhaps one opportunity or they go home empty handed, and I've been there on the last day of a hunt. Think this happened to Doug's kid, and it's happened to me. Doug's position on a lack of damage and shock from the Barnes also has merits, though my first choice as a hunting bullet it is one of my last for moving game and high volume stuff with fast shooting, see rationalisation below.
My last long string of game animals at home have all except one dropped within fifty yards, and likely 90% within steps or on the spot, a lot of Barnes in there too. Grizzly walked the furthest, it acted like I missed and I was blown away to follow blood, and find it down in the thick bush a hundred yards in, the bear just flinched at the shot, and casually sauntered away to lay down and die with no drama. Also have had a few #### ups over the years overseas, and a Whitetail at home five years ago on a frigid morning I just plain messed up. Still went down on the spot, but not at all the placement I hoped for, spined it.
Been fortunate to recover all of them, except a few Impala culling, one who's body I'm convinced I'd damn near have stepped over in the thorns but never located, that was an imperfectly placed Barnes, but my fault not the bullet's (culling, moving, high volume shooting). While I don't think there is a thing wrong with Barnes and they're my go to, can see Doug's argument. When culling the Impala, literally shooting truckloads and often moving, Barnes did prove inferior on light game for knock down than the cheap Federal Blue Box. There was quite a remarkable difference, but not a strike on Barnes for me, it's a proper and reliable hunting bullet, not a heavy shocker however.
So, there I am properly joining the Internet again, seems I rashly called anyone out who recovers everything and then just claimed above I do too, for the mostpart. #### happens in the field however and it's happened to me too, the more you put yourself out there on short timeframe hunts away from home where you can't just go back out next week, well we're human and the more chances taken. In this scenario, I can admit possible shortcomings to my favourite bullet, and a lot of hunting doesn't allow perfect meditated shots as from a tree stand in Ontario. Just read the Hanson buck's death saga sometime, an all out war!
Merry Christmas everyone.
Angus
My last long string of game animals at home have all except one dropped within fifty yards, and likely 90% within steps or on the spot, a lot of Barnes in there too. Grizzly walked the furthest, it acted like I missed and I was blown away to follow blood, and find it down in the thick bush a hundred yards in, the bear just flinched at the shot, and casually sauntered away to lay down and die with no drama. Also have had a few #### ups over the years overseas, and a Whitetail at home five years ago on a frigid morning I just plain messed up. Still went down on the spot, but not at all the placement I hoped for, spined it.
Been fortunate to recover all of them, except a few Impala culling, one who's body I'm convinced I'd damn near have stepped over in the thorns but never located, that was an imperfectly placed Barnes, but my fault not the bullet's (culling, moving, high volume shooting). While I don't think there is a thing wrong with Barnes and they're my go to, can see Doug's argument. When culling the Impala, literally shooting truckloads and often moving, Barnes did prove inferior on light game for knock down than the cheap Federal Blue Box. There was quite a remarkable difference, but not a strike on Barnes for me, it's a proper and reliable hunting bullet, not a heavy shocker however.
So, there I am properly joining the Internet again, seems I rashly called anyone out who recovers everything and then just claimed above I do too, for the mostpart.
#### happens in the field however and it's happened to me too, the more you put yourself out there on short timeframe hunts away from home where you can't just go back out next week, well we're human and the more chances taken. In this scenario, I can admit possible shortcomings to my favourite bullet, and a lot of hunting doesn't allow perfect meditated shots as from a tree stand in Ontario. Just read the Hanson buck's death saga sometime, an all out war!Merry Christmas everyone.
Angus
No they are not brainwashed robots... they are kids... with good parents that take them into the outdoors and teach them about nature and wildlife... by the time they squeeze the trigger, they can handle the excitement... that has been my experience with my kids and their friends and nieces and nephews...
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
He becoming a little insufferable isn't he.
There are some good folks who used to post lots of fine information on CGN, but who no longer post anything at all. There are some good folks on here still that have such a vast wealth of knowledge to share, but their post counts are low. This thread is a good example of why.
I had a discussion on bullet performance with a very well known and respected gun writer. This person has shot, or seen shot more game than 99% of the CGN members here. While modern bullets are very, very reliable, they can on the rare occasion fail to expand or disintegrate or whatever. This person told me that of bullets that he has used/seen used in large volumes, there is only one bullet that he has never observed a failure with. And it isn't the TSX/TTSX. And believe me, that it only takes once to leave a bad taste in a person's mouth.
But forget what this anonymous gun writer told me - Eagleye, a well respected and very experienced member of CGN has posted pictures of two recovered (from animals) TTSX bullets that did not expand. What's the excuse there? There is a fellow from Alaska on 24Hr Campfire who has posted similar pictures. Heck, even our own Why Not? has posted about his own observations in the past. This can and does happen.
Doug - good for you for taking the boy out and congrats on getting an animal on the ground.
I had a discussion on bullet performance with a very well known and respected gun writer. This person has shot, or seen shot more game than 99% of the CGN members here. While modern bullets are very, very reliable, they can on the rare occasion fail to expand or disintegrate or whatever. This person told me that of bullets that he has used/seen used in large volumes, there is only one bullet that he has never observed a failure with. And it isn't the TSX/TTSX. And believe me, that it only takes once to leave a bad taste in a person's mouth.
But forget what this anonymous gun writer told me - Eagleye, a well respected and very experienced member of CGN has posted pictures of two recovered (from animals) TTSX bullets that did not expand. What's the excuse there? There is a fellow from Alaska on 24Hr Campfire who has posted similar pictures. Heck, even our own Why Not? has posted about his own observations in the past. This can and does happen.
Doug - good for you for taking the boy out and congrats on getting an animal on the ground.
Common sense says that if a manufacture's defect does not allow a mono metal to expand that it would zip right through an animal. If you find an unexpanded mono metal in an animal, the cause is very unlikely to be manufacturer's defect. I'm not questioning the fact the people have found them.....I'm questioning their conclusion as to why they didn't expand. It's very unlikely a manufacturing flaw if they are pulled out of an animal.
