The Ultimate North American Hunting Round?

Best North American Hunting Round

  • .270 Winchester

    Votes: 70 8.4%

  • .270 WSM

    Votes: 11 1.3%

  • .30-06

    Votes: 358 42.8%

  • .35 Whelen (tough to find, yes, but solid)

    Votes: 19 2.3%

  • 7mm Rem Mag

    Votes: 67 8.0%

  • .300 Win Mag

    Votes: 147 17.6%

  • .338 Win Mag

    Votes: 67 8.0%

  • .375 Mag (H&H or Ruger)

    Votes: 54 6.5%

  • .300 Ultra Mag (tough to find, but hard to argue with)

    Votes: 8 1.0%

  • .300 WSM

    Votes: 35 4.2%
  • Total voters
    836
chuck nelson said:
There is a world of difference between the 22 LR and the 30-06. But I will contend there is not the same difference between the 30-06 and the 338 Win Mag TJ.
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But they both did the job...that seemed to be your case for including it. Adequate no doubt......Ultimate....not a contender.
 
Dogleg said:
From the Oxford dictionary:

noun



1 (the ultimate) The best achievable or imaginable of its kind:
‘the ultimate in decorative luxury’
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I wasn't asking for the Oxford version... it would seem the confusion/debate here largely pivots on the various interpretations of what constitutes "ultimate."
 
hoytcanon said:
Define "ultimate" in the context of this thread.
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Suppose I'm well suited to define as I started the whole party, I'd have to say,

The chambering with which you can take the widest variety of shots, over the widest variety of ranges, on the widest variety of species anywhere on the continent. .30-06 is a good crescent wrench as Doug puts it but I feel it falls well short of ultimate.
 
hoytcanon said:
I wasn't asking for the Oxford version... it would seem the confusion/debate here largely pivots on the various interpretations of what constitutes "ultimate."
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I doubt there's any confusion about what ultimate means. The trouble is there is no ultimate, just individual ideas of the best compromise. Some come closer than others to pulling it off. In an equation that includes both big and far animals, the answer has to be weighted toward big and fast cartridges.
 
Dogleg said:
I doubt there's any confusion about what ultimate means.
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I disagree... Ultimate in this context can't mean simply "bigger" or "faster," if that were the case the recommendations would just "one-up" to the .50 BMG and beyond. The ultimate has to be as good on the smallest game while at the same time being sufficient for the largest most dangerous game. My perspective is that the Ultimate for the NA29 is the cartridge that can comfortably handle Sitka blacktails and "legally" be utilized on big bears and bison... you fellas from the Pacific Northwest, are pumping the .338 Mags etc... and that is understandable, but the reality is that the plain jane .30/06 (on Ardents list) can "comfortably" handle the smallest game and is legal in all jurisdictions for the biggest game... and in hunting scenarios is not particularly handicapped within reasonable parameters... when the SHTF though, perspectives can change fast... at that point, no matter what your holding, it won't feel big enough.
 
Ultimate to me means ideal for the big toothy stuff because that means it will be ideal for the little stuff too. You can't say the same for a cartridge that's only ideal for the little/medium stuff. A 338WM is no harder on and kills no deader on the little stuff than a .30-06 but does make me feel a whole lot more comfy when as you say, SHTF. My idea of an ultimate NA 29 rifle would be light enough to pack on multi-day hunts, big/powerful enough to comfortably handle the big bears and bison with no backup, capable of shooting 500 yards and won't knock your fillings out shooting prone and for the factory ammo guys, ammo should be readily available at any reasonable-sized gun shop.
 
U
hoytcanon said:
I disagree... Ultimate in this context can't mean simply "bigger" or "faster," if that were the case the recommendations would just "one-up" to the .50 BMG and beyond. The ultimate has to be as good on the smallest game while at the same time being sufficient for the largest most dangerous game. My perspective is that the Ultimate for the NA29 is the cartridge that can comfortably handle Sitka blacktails and "legally" be utilized on big bears and bison... you fellas from the Pacific Northwest, are pumping the .338 Mags etc... and that is understandable, but the reality is that the plain jane .30/06 (on Ardents list) can "comfortably" handle the smallest game and is legal in all jurisdictions for the biggest game... and in hunting scenarios is not particularly handicapped within reasonable parameters... when the SHTF though, perspectives can change fast... at that point, no matter what your holding, it won't feel big enough.[/QUOT

Weighted toward isn't the same as bigger is better no matter what. I have 4 :30-06s and have killed literally hundreds of animals with them. I like them in hunting situations where the shooting volume is high enough that the magnums will burn the crap out of you constantly. They are also quieter.

Once the high volume culling is addressed I find little reason to use a 30-06 at all. There isn't anything it can do that a .300 can't surpass or exactly duplicate with hand loads. It doesnt work the other way..
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Boomer said:
The medium case capacity 6.5s represent the smallest cartridges that I consider appropriate for use as general purpose big game rounds; the 6.5s shine in the role of mice to moose cartridges. They're appropriate for use on all North American game with the exception of Woods Bison, only because minimum cartridge limitations are imposed in the Yukon. I would not feel the least bit unarmed with a 6.5 loaded with tough 160 gr bullets for bear protection, regardless of species, provided I was travelling alone.

The quarter bore guys tend to fuss when I say that general purpose big game cartridges start with the 6.5's, as there is such little difference in bullet diameter between the two. But the advantage the 6.5s have over the .257 is not the meager .007" difference in bullet diameter, but in the 6.5's broad selection of bullets. With game bullet weights up to 160 grs, the 6.5s overshadow the .25s by a considerable margin. Admittedly the introduction of lightweight premium .257" slugs reduces the disparity between the two a bit, but not enough to influence my point of view. It should be remembered that cartridge preference is almost always based on opinion rather than on hard fact.

Their moderate powder capacity allows 6.5 rifles to be a bit shorter and lighter without giving up critical performance. A small, short rifle chambered for a moderate 6.5 cartridge neither increases blast or recoil in any important way compared to when chambered in larger rifles, which cannot be said for larger cartridges. The mild blast and recoil from these rifles benefits field marksmanship, and results in a greater rate of success than simply choosing a cartridge based on energy figures from a ballistics table. For some reason 6.5 rifles tend to be far more accurate out of the box than some of their larger brothers, and are far more accurate than can be exploited under typical big game hunting conditions by the majority of hunters. Trajectory, when a slippery bullet is chosen, allows a competent field marksman to make quarter mile hits with his 6.5, without having to crank on his scope's elevation adjustment. If it wasn't for a 45 year love affair with the .30/06, the 6.5X55 might well be my darling, although the 6.5X55 is but one of many similar cartridges.

While slightly more capable, the .264 Winchester and the new .26 Nosler require larger rifles, and longer barrels, to exploit their advantage. These cartridges have the ballistic advantage to be excellent choices for the long range marksman, they don't share the moderate 6.5's primary advantages of mild manners in a conveniently sized package.
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Ask a different question and get a different answer... above quote from the "6.5 thread"... take away bison and make it the NA28 and 6.5's join the conversation... I think we are all just blathering on... I said .30/06 but don't own or shoot one... if y'all wanna go .300 or .338 WM, that works for me... I'm only interested in the NA10, so anything from standard 6.5mm's to standard .30 cals, will do just fine...

Continue...
 
hoytcanon said:
Ask a different question and get a different answer... above quote from the "6.5 thread"... take away bison and make it the NA28 and 6.5's join the conversation... I think we are all just blathering on... I said .30/06 but don't own or shoot one... if y'all wanna go .300 or .338 WM, that works for me... I'm only interested in the NA10, so anything from standard 6.5mm's to standard .30 cals, will do just fine...

Continue...
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In fairness to Boomer, I suspect he had ungulates on the brain when he said only bison were excluded. Considering his experience with the biggest of toothy bears I don't see him advocating the 6.5 as ideal for them....but guessing you knew that.
 
sheephunter said:
In fairness to Boomer, I suspect he had ungulates on the brain when he said only bison were excluded. Considering his experience with the biggest of toothy bears I don't see him advocating the 6.5 as ideal for them....but guessing you knew that.
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The quote was not intend to disparage Boomer or his insight and experience, all of which I respect. However, I have noted a different perspective being articulated by most of the primary's on this thread, when asked a slightly different question in other threads... ie. Ask about the 6.5X55 or 7X57 and a love fest will ensue... and there will be strong support for either, up to and including big bears... at any rate, we are thankfully not limited to a single cartridge and platform... compromise is not required.
 
No doubt there is a growing love affair with the 6.5 cartridges in North America and they have proven themselves quite capable on game up to and including Canada moose but I don't see how that changes the discussion here. That still leaves Alaska/Yukon moose, bison, grizz, brown bear and polar bear on the list that the Ultimate NA cartridge must handle with ease. I think most 6.5 fans, myself included, would agree that the 6.5 would not be ideal/ultimate for that short list.
 
sheephunter said:
No doubt there is a growing love affair with the 6.5 cartridges in North America and they have proven themselves quite capable on game up to and including Canada moose but I don't see how that changes the discussion here. That still leaves Alaska/Yukon moose, bison, grizz, brown bear and polar bear on the list that the Ultimate NA cartridge must handle with ease. I think most 6.5 fans, myself included, would agree that the 6.5 would not be ideal/ultimate for that short list.
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When it comes to the three great bears, the list of "ultimate" calibers gets pushed to the larger ....actually medium bores. Lots of the calibers discussed have a range of animals and situations, and work well on most of the "NA29", just not those three. Mostly i would be happy with a rifle i could walk down the bore with a cowboy hat on for those three...lol
 
hoytcanon said:
The quote was not intend to disparage Boomer or his insight and experience, all of which I respect. However, I have noted a different perspective being articulated by most of the primary's on this thread, when asked a slightly different question in other threads... ie. Ask about the 6.5X55 or 7X57 and a love fest will ensue... and there will be strong support for either, up to and including big bears... at any rate, we are thankfully not limited to a single cartridge and platform... compromise is not required.
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best of the world 6.5x57 ....
 
I just found out about Hornady's H.I.T.S., which says that American Bison is in the Large category (score range of 901 to 1500). Interesting, as that seems to place a couple of the "little guys" a bit higher on the ladder. Now, I'm not going to trade my .30-06 for a .375H&H..............just joking, you couldn't pry my .270 from my CDHs.............but I'm still not going hunting big bears or bison, with it;) Ardent, you were right, this is fun:)

http://www.hornady.com/hits
 
Ardent said:
They've done the impossible... The most fun I've had in awhile is playing with their "HITS" calculator. We are officially good to go on dangerous game, and by a healthy margin, with a 300gr .338 bullet at 1,500 fps. A 250gr .30 cal at 1600fps also qualifies. Good fun.
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Funny thing with that calculator, 220 gr 30 cal bullet travelling at 2640 gets a "HITS" rating of 1922, exact same bullet weight and speed with a .338 cal drops down to 1597. That's a pretty big drop for simply changing a sectional density a bit
 
StevieK said:
Funny thing with that calculator, 220 gr 30 cal bullet travelling at 2640 gets a "HITS" rating of 1922, exact same bullet weight and speed with a .338 cal drops down to 1597. That's a pretty big drop for simply changing a sectional density a bit
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A bit more than SD change...one is .308 and the other is .338. Diameter of the hole it makes might have more to do with it.
 
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