6mm build

I had a 6x47 that was scary accurate. 1/8 moa = no bs. I'm not talkin about a lucky 3 shot group once in a while. I'm talkin back to back 5 shot groups day in and day out in clear conditions. If it shot outside 1/4 inch it was heavy mirage.

BUT it was crap with the lapua brass unless it was 90 F outside. Just not enough primer to light the powder. I had to use large primer brass like 22-250 or 6XC and that made reloading a time consuming process. For all the work, I'd have been better off just running a 6XC. But would the 6XC have been as accurate as the 6x47 with the 6XC brass? I don't know. That rifle was a dream if you want accurate.

Accuracy died sharply after 800 rounds though. The barrel was toast.

If a guy wants a 6xc or 6x47, chamber 2 barrels from the start and keep the first shot out barrel around for fire forming cases and save the 2nd fresh barrel for serious work. the first 800 rounds goes by pretty quick.

If you want to use this cartridge for f class you'll be real competitive on calm days out to 1000 but only to 600 in when the wind is up. Past 600 on windy days the 6.5s and 7mm will get you good. The BC just isn't there. BTW - don't believe the advertised BC for the 115s. It's less. I figure .535 is about right, based on my MV and come ups to 1000. Tubbs agreed.

You'll hear a lot of guys having a hard time working up a good load for the 6x47 because they are trying to do it with the small primer. It just doesn't work as advertised, not 2 days in a row anyway. After a boat load of load testing with the small primer brass before giving up on it, I can tell you that my best small primer load was not as good as my worst large primer load over the chronograph or on paper.

I had a number of conversations with David Tubb about it and he actually considered the small primer for the 6xc but Obermyer talked him out of it. Obermyer said he tried it at one time too and gave up also saying you just cant consistently light 38 grains of 4350ish powder with a small primer. He was certain that he made the right call especially after I shared my results with him. I just confirmed what he already knew.

If you look at bullet weight to powder ratios the 6x47 is right on the screws. (better than the 6XC actually) Take the bullet weight of 115/3=38.33 grains of powder. That's a quick recipe for a good target load. Find a case that runs good pressures at 38.33 grains of powder with the 115 and you'll have a shooter. It's a great rule of thumb.

I can also add that since the 6XC will run them just a little faster, it will shoot better with and 8.5 twist rather than an 8. If you run an 8 twist your accuracy will begin to degrade before you reach peak velocity. Again Tubbs agreed.
 
Last edited:
Hmm weird. I find Winchester .243 brass at the local Wholesale sports. Higginsons carried it as well the last time I checked. $27.50/50. Strangely enough there is quite a bit of evidence of guys doing their fireforming for the 6CM at a short range(600m or less) matches and having it shoot just fine. For me the expensive and hard to get Norma brass and/or going through all the trouble to neck size .22-250 brass is enough to make me want to switch to something that is cheap load and shoot. But to each his own. I still love my 6XC. I'm over 1100 rds and its still a 1/2 min gun. My rifle shot just fine at NSCC(the driver was the problem lol).
 
If you can find Win brass for that price, it is very old stock (bet it has Winchester in small red lettering on a white background). BUY IT ALL.... Have a look at various US sites and you will find that US$ retail is much higher then that.... for anything that you can actually buy.

Win brass labels have changed in appearance and colour... quite a dramatic change. Since I have not actually ever shot this new stuff I cannot say for sure, but some are complaining not as good as the older stuff.

IMG_0490_zpsel1aacav.jpg


Got out again to retest my fireforming load and see there was any copper issues with the new barrel. Cleaning pull zero copper so we are definitely off to a good start - after 40rds on brand new Shilen barrel.

This group was from a bare clean bore at 100yds. Looks like it will take 3rds to settle and then shoot just fine. If this load holds at LR, I would have zero issues fireforming at club matches.


IMG_0491_zpsreb7c12h.jpg


Well, worked towards 39.5gr that everyone raves about.... this group is 4rds at 39.4gr. Yeah, I would have to agree... working just fine. Maybe Hrn is doing something to improve their bullets... very impressed.

This is with formed brass... and speaking of formed brass:


IMG_0489_zpsxplxlafz.jpg


From L to R - Parent PRVI 22-250 brass, secondary shoulder formed using 7BR die, after COW forming and outside neck turning - note soft rounded shoulder, after high pressure firing

The 6XC has been one of the nicest, most docile, easy to tune chamberings I have used in some time. Liking it alot and it is now a permanent member of my precision rifle collection. Can't wait to test at LR when the snow melts.

Jerry
 
All that I have to do with the 6mm Crusader to form brass is load a bullet and fire... with brass thats listed for $27.00/50 at Higginson. After doing it for 6 years, even that seems like a hassle...

Noticed that they've published the video of the 2014 PRS Finale, btw:

[youtube]BiO7YiuWstg[/youtube]

Winner took home $19,000 worth of cash and prizes!
 
Last edited:
Absolutely.. and there are several variations already in this format. A bit more case volume, but likely no faster.

I was always curious on the 6XC and we had the reamer. What concerned me about a bigger case was needing a tween powder.

Too fast for one... too slow for another.

Since the 6XC has a strong history of success with H4350, and I have some, I went for it. A bit more work but seems to be a very balanced and easy to tune case. Certainly an excellent match for the H4350 and the 3000fps I wanted to get from the 24" pipe.

If I win the Lotto, there is Norma 6XC brass so it would be plug and play

Then there is the longer case neck. NO biggie for a single feed set up but for fast mag feeding, that 22-250 neck is pretty darn short.

The FF group I shot was done with ammo I had run through my rifle at least a dozen times. Bughole after being sent through a mag and ejected onto the floor a bunch of times? I'll take it.

Let's see what the LR shooting is like when the snow melts.

Jerry
 
If 6XC had more factory brass options, it would be my choice. I like the longer neck than the Creedmoor and the large primer pocket.

Higginson is out of 243 brass... well, it is now! :d

Most of the PRS season will be over by the time the snow melts, unfortunately. But, there are a few matches and time to prepare for next year. I don't even have my new rifles built yet... The joys of an unheated workshop!
 
3 year event... massive industry support. An event you must QUALIFY to shoot.

Marketing at its best and most positive for any shooting sport. WOW....

This is one dialed in bunch of guys... Love it.

Jerry
 
Industry has a lot of incentive to support it, its drawing a lot of interest from LEO and military because it simulates real world shooting conditions really well and is a pretty good test of equipment. Its not uncommon for several high end scopes to go down in one of those matches.

Did you notice the Army Marksmanship Unit guy there scoping out the match?
 
The "coverage" from the industry is MASSIVE. Most sports are really gear specific with narrow appeal to mass marketing.

The PRS AND the way they market their event is on par with the best pro sport and commercial events. Slick, professional, exciting and it looks like a lot of fun.

I notice the emphasis on the sponsor and business exposure intermixed with the event. Not some dull boring picture of a banner on a wall BUT a real chance for the business to get 'air' time... smart... and talk about return on investment!

I loved seeing the range of shooters from Joe Average to full on pro shooters. Guys and Gals. Broad appeal and really try to pull as wide an audience in as possible.

Adding those sound bites of the top shooters having a bad relay not only puts a "human" touch to the sport but also makes the sport accessible to the audience.

I most certainly noticed the AMU shooters there. They are at alot of top US matches in various disciplines... Why not? Best shooters, best gear, free research.

It could be a 3 min video of some big field with a few shooters running around shooting stuff up... instead, you have a video you WANT to watch and the presentation is slick..

This sport is going to eclipse all rifle precision shooting in the US soon. Feeder matches are going to grow many fold as shooters vie to make it to the coveted finale.

A sport you are cool to play in... DAMN that is a fine story...

And the business know it!

Jerry
PS... so you think your rifle runs fast????? Nice stuff....
 
Jerry,
You seem to have found what I talked about on another forum, there is some kind of magic that takes place at 39.5gr of H4350 in the 6XC.
I have tried 2 rifles, different twist barrels, several bullet types and weights, and always 39.5gr of H4350 shoots excellent.
Tubbs says he compares the 6XC to only the 308 in ease of finding good loads, I would agree, it shoots almost anything I have put through it very well.
Great cartridge.
 
I looked up some load data in the Berger reloading manual.... In their notes, they suggest that when Norma was tooling up and testing to make the brass, they found the 6XC more accurate then the 6BR overall.

How's that for an endorsement?

Mucked about with the bottom metal and mags. Seems to be running well... but only stressed high rate cycling is going to tell if things are indeed working or not.

More stuff to figure out.. fun, fun, fun.

Jerry
 
Jerry, start with dots. Print off a page with 3/4 Moa dots at 100. 10 dots in 90 seconds. When you do it, take it down 5 seconds. Then when it's just not possible time wise, go back to 90 seconds and drop them to 1/2 moa dots. From prone, will start helping with the fast passed stressful shooting. Then add some positions or movement prior.
 
Great tip... will try to add some dynamic practise into my shooting routine. My main focus is still FTR but I can see how this type of shooting can really help broaden skills and interests.

I want to shoot at movers someday... that looks like a whole bunch of frustrating fun.

My hope is to couple Service rifle/ARs, and PRS/bolt rifle practise. I see alot of cross over and I have the stuff sitting in the safe getting dusty so why not?

Missing is the support bags and pads to keep from getting battered and bruised. Now if we can just have places to run matches in BC/AB... sigh

Jerry
 
Those would be a good start for movers. The movers in most Canadian matches are moving at about 1.1-1.5 MPH(the ones in the video above are at least twice that). Learn to use your reticle (angular value) for leads, and not a linear distance. For a given target speed, the angular lead is the same regardless of distance up to 500-600 yards (depending on time of flight). If you track the mover, and follow through, you can pretty much plug the lead in directly and don't need to worry about lock time. If you trap the target, you will need to add a bit to it to account for your lock time. You can also measure target speed with the reticle.

A mechanical mover isn't all that hard to cobble together. We made ours from an old hay elevator, and change the speed by changing the size of the pulley on the motor. Some people have made them from garage door openers, or a keyless entry modules, a motor and a couple relays.

P.S. Also familiarize yourself with angle (uphill/downhill) shooting. Depending on where the match is held, it may be significant part of the match. Most big matches have at least one stage with a tower. Ones that are in mountainy places may include a lot of it because of the terrain.
 
Last edited:
Great tip... will try to add some dynamic practise into my shooting routine. My main focus is still FTR but I can see how this type of shooting can really help broaden skills and interests.

I want to shoot at movers someday... that looks like a whole bunch of frustrating fun.

My hope is to couple Service rifle/ARs, and PRS/bolt rifle practise. I see alot of cross over and I have the stuff sitting in the safe getting dusty so why not?

Missing is the support bags and pads to keep from getting battered and bruised. Now if we can just have places to run matches in BC/AB... sigh

Jerry

Jerry,

This is what I shot at the 400 yards Mover with my 6BR and of course, Sightron SIII 10-50x60 that I purchased from you. You will need to shoot 8-12 inch to the right/left, depending on the mover's direction. See the video.
The camera attached with Vortex Razor 20-60x85HD. Easy to see the bullet vapour through mild mirage.
 
You will need to shoot 8-12 inch to the right/left, depending on the mover's direction.[/video]

The movers in the ORA PR matches are always the same speed, and always at the same distance. In the PRS (Precision Rifle Series) matches Jerry wants to shoot, you will get movers at different speeds and different distances each time. If you try and use inches to hold off, you will make your life very difficult.
 
So here is the update on this project. I ended up using the stainless action I had for another build. Specs are as follows
Rem700sa with factory 8-40 scope mount holes that i trued up
#7 contour benchmark 8 twist chambered in 243ai
Greybull precision stock
Stiller DBM
 
Back
Top Bottom