Blow Up USSR, Nuclear Apocalypse

762mm said:
(This report doesn't seem to jive with the CGN naysayers who claim that "metal cannot be irradiated". I suppose the commies just had so much money and equipment kicking around, they decided to scrap a bunch of perfectly good helicopters, tanks, trucks, buses, trains, etc. instead of just hosing them down... right, lol!)
Click to expand...
The article was written by a journalist, the people saying ionizing radiation will not irradiate other materials obviously have RP experience.
 
A lot of people seem to think radiation is radiation, but there are so many different characteristics, source geometries, and organs of interest that its just not as simple as that.
 
I think anyone interested in this subject should read this--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_radioactivity .Years ago at Eldrado Nuclear (Cameco) in Port Hope had a scrap pile outside isolated with metals that where lightly radioactive. These metals which included machinery ,tools ,hand tools such as torch's ,torch carts, wrench's , where to be disposed of by burial in a low level dump. Some bone head stole a bunch of this stuff and sold it and got busted and had to come clean on every one who he sold it to and the buyers would be arrested if they didn't turn over the stuff! I know this because some of the guys I was working with at the time received a visit by the cops and had to cough up the goods they bought or risk theft possession charges. The goods where clean as far as surface contamination but the structure of the materials in them had become radioactive by induced radiation. Also for further reading and interest look up radioactive steel as its a major worldwide issue past and present. Hope this clears up any confusion--Dieseldog!
 
Alpha and beta radiation are not really Much of a concern.

X-rays and gamma rays are what you don't want to be near. And yes like it has been said... It's contaiminated with radioactive material, not irradiated. Think of a nice sprinkle of uranium all over the metal. The metal itself doesn't become radioactive, but the uranium on its surface is.
 
dieseldog said:
I think anyone interested in this subject should read this--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_radioactivity .Years ago at Eldrado Nuclear (Cameco) in Port Hope had a scrap pile outside isolated with metals that where lightly radioactive. These metals which included machinery ,tools ,hand tools such as torch's ,torch carts, wrench's , where to be disposed of by burial in a low level dump. Some bone head stole a bunch of this stuff and sold it and got busted and had to come clean on every one who he sold it to and the buyers would be arrested if they didn't turn over the stuff! I know this because some of the guys I was working with at the time received a visit by the cops and had to cough up the goods they bought or risk theft possession charges. The goods where clean as far as surface contamination but the structure of the materials in them had become radioactive by induced radiation. Also for further reading and interest look up radioactive steel as its a major worldwide issue past and present. Hope this clears up any confusion--Dieseldog!
Click to expand...
Contaminated not irradiated
Alpha and Beta are a huge concern if present as loose contamination. If it gets into your lungs or digestive tract it could do considerable damage because they are ionizing. Alpha is only present where there is irradiated fuel though.
 
Turkinator said:
Contaminated not irradiated
Alpha and Beta are a huge concern if present as loose contamination. If it gets into your lungs or digestive tract it could do considerable damage because they are ionizing. Alpha is only present where there is irradiated fuel though.
Click to expand...


Alpha can't even penetrate a layer of skin or a piece of paper... I have a chunk of bismuth sitting beside my fireplace and it produces harmless alpha particles.
 
ShawnC6 said:
Alpha can't even penetrate a layer of skin or a piece of paper... I have a chunk of bismuth sitting beside my fireplace and it produces harmless alpha particles.
Click to expand...
Exactly that's why I say it's only an internal hazard because since it is the nucleus of a helium atom (2 proton and 2 neutrons) it lacks 2 electrons to balance the positive charge of the two protons. It has a charge of +2 and will literally strip electrons out of your body, damaging DNA hopefully killing but possibly damaging cells. The damaged cells start dividing creating masses of useless random tissue forming a tumor. The organs or interest with Alpha is the lungs and digestive tract, not the whole body and it is very dangerous if it gets in your body as loose contamination.
 
ShawnC6 said:
sigh... never mind.

Alpha is harmless. Gamma will kill you within hours.
Click to expand...
Ok I guess it will be your little secret.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_particle
"When alpha particle emitting isotopes are ingested, they are far more dangerous than their half-life or decay rate would suggest, due to the high relative biological effectiveness of alpha radiation to cause biological damage, after alpha-emitting radioisotopes enter living cells. Ingested alpha emitter radioisotopes (such as transuranics or actinides) are an average of about 20 times more dangerous, and in some experiments up to 1000 times more dangerous, than an equivalent activity of beta emitting or gamma emitting radioisotopes."

"Due to the short range of absorption and inability to penetrate the outer layers of skin, alpha particles are not, in general, dangerous to life unless the source is ingested or inhaled, in which case they become extremely dangerous.[5] Because of this high mass and strong absorption, if alpha-emitting radionuclides do enter the body (upon being inhaled, ingested, or injected, as with the use of Thorotrast for high-quality X-ray images prior to the 1950s), alpha radiation is the most destructive form of ionizing radiation. It is the most strongly ionizing, and with large enough doses can cause any or all of the symptoms of radiation poisoning. It is estimated that chromosome damage from alpha particles is anywhere from 10 to 1000 times greater than that caused by an equivalent amount of gamma or beta radiation, with the average being set at 20 times. The powerful alpha emitter polonium-210 (a milligram of 210Po emits as many alpha particles per second as 4.215 grams of 226Ra) is suspected of playing a role in lung cancer and bladder cancer related to tobacco smoking.[6] 210Po was used to kill Russian dissident and ex-FSB officer Alexander V. Litvinenko in 2006.[7]"
 
Last edited:
tootall said:
I dont work with radioactive stuff ,so I am not an expert. That is why I ask...

I recall asking an NDT welding inspector about radiation.
He compared it to lighting up something with a flashlight.
Turn of the light, and it is no longer lit up.

But, if I understand the difference between Irradiated and Contaminated correctly, Contaminated refers to smoke and dust particles spewing out of the burning reactor covering everything around with fallout. This fallout is what poisoned the field of vehicles.
Correct?
Click to expand...

Your NDT guy is pretty much bang on. The question is what you have the light pointing at. Irradiated aluminum will decay very quickly, stainless steel much longer, but it will decay. Your understanding of contamination and irradiation is correct.
 
weasel1 said:
Your NDT guy is pretty much bang on. The question is what you have the light pointing at. Irradiated aluminum will decay very quickly, stainless steel much longer, but it will decay. Your understanding of contamination and irradiation is correct.
Click to expand...


Radiation doesn't cause decay.. The source itself is what decays which is literally what makes it radioactive. Steel will "absorb / block" more than less dense aluminum. That's why they use depleted uranium as a shielding material... Ultra high density.

Turkinator said:
Ok I guess it will be your little secret.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_particle
"When alpha particle emitting isotopes are ingested, they are far more dangerous than their half-life or decay rate would suggest, due to the high relative biological effectiveness of alpha radiation to cause biological damage, after alpha-emitting radioisotopes enter living cells. Ingested alpha emitter radioisotopes (such as transuranics or actinides) are an average of about 20 times more dangerous, and in some experiments up to 1000 times more dangerous, than an equivalent activity of beta emitting or gamma emitting radioisotopes."

"Due to the short range of absorption and inability to penetrate the outer layers of skin, alpha particles are not, in general, dangerous to life unless the source is ingested or inhaled, in which case they become extremely dangerous.[5] Because of this high mass and strong absorption, if alpha-emitting radionuclides do enter the body (upon being inhaled, ingested, or injected, as with the use of Thorotrast for high-quality X-ray images prior to the 1950s), alpha radiation is the most destructive form of ionizing radiation. It is the most strongly ionizing, and with large enough doses can cause any or all of the symptoms of radiation poisoning. It is estimated that chromosome damage from alpha particles is anywhere from 10 to 1000 times greater than that caused by an equivalent amount of gamma or beta radiation, with the average being set at 20 times. The powerful alpha emitter polonium-210 (a milligram of 210Po emits as many alpha particles per second as 4.215 grams of 226Ra) is suspected of playing a role in lung cancer and bladder cancer related to tobacco smoking.[6] 210Po was used to kill Russian dissident and ex-FSB officer Alexander V. Litvinenko in 2006.[7]"
Click to expand...


Don't go licking the vehicles in Chernobyl or run around with a leaf blower. A person with 1000lbs of alpha emitting material sitting in front of them will not be harmed in any way unless they feel like eating the block of metal.
 
ShawnC6 said:
Radiation doesn't cause decay.. The source itself is what decays which is literally what makes it radioactive. Steel will "absorb / block" more than less dense aluminum. That's why they use depleted uranium as a shielding material... Ultra high density.




Don't go licking the vehicles in Chernobyl or run around with a leaf blower. A person with 1000lbs of alpha emitting material sitting in front of them will not be harmed in any way unless they feel like eating the block of metal.
Click to expand...
Where have you gotten these ideas about radiation? I'm really curious why you're being so stubborn about this.
 
Me too. Where did I say it caused decay? It DOES decay (after it was irradiated ). Much the very same way your food cools of when you take it out of the oven. Not everything cools at the same rate. I don't think I can simplify it much more than that. I've been doing this for 11 years. If you want, come to work with me for a bit. You'll learn more than you ever need to know....
 
And you don't always use lead or dense metals to shield. Beta is best shielded with low Z materials because of the Bremsstrahlung effect. Neutrons are best shielded with light water and hydrogenous materials such as concrete.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom