375 H&H vs 375 Ruger vs 9,3x62

conor_90 said:
Sorry, I was mistaken about the max 250 velocity listed by hodgdon. Not to be this guy, but that 2548 load is an exception, other powders are nowhere near the velocities of BL-C(2).



Bigborefan appears to me at least to be suggesting that because the tikka can handle the pressures of the .338 WM and therefore is capable of handling the same pressures in the 9.3x62.

I will defer to him because he is clearly a more experienced re-loader than I, but I would suggest that this reasoning is likely correct but I am curious if certain cases cannot handle excess pressure regardless of action strength due to their construction.

I don't think you can understate the similarities between the cartridges in either case...
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Yeah, we get it, you're a 338 Win mag fan. Keep telling yourself it's the greatest thing since slice bread or boobs. The fact is, your 338 isn't exactly a SR-71 running away from a bi plane. When shown better ballistics, you dismiss the powder (BLC-2/Varget/H414/RL-15/RL-17/Big Game? are all winners depending on bullet weight), or suggest the casing may be weaker. I kind of doubt that.
 
9.3mauser said:
Not the page I was looking for but it will have to do...

https://www.zliavhunting.com/caliber-requirements-for-african-countries/

It's worth noting that while Zim and Namibia allow 9.3mm calibre, there is also an energy requirement of 5300J or 3,909 ft. lbs. Most factory loads or the 9.3x62 will not meet this requirement. Even the RWS 293 gr. TUG ( now called UNI classic) listed at 2,430 fps, won't do it.
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here are some mystakes on those infos: not your fault this is internet.


Africa: i collected those datas and contacted different agencies when we operated in different places.

Benin +6mm

senegal
mini 8x68 buffalo hippo roan reedbuck hardbeest
other antelope +6 mm

burkina faso
+9mm buffalo
+7mm lion roan hartbeest warthog bushbuck hyena reedbuck

CAR sorry but never heard or read about 375 as a mini in any regulations so far. i left there in 92 ... no new regulations has been implemented so far.


old french colonies are hard to get a clue about what they do as hunting is open and close depending on the situation and most of the locals do not rely on laws ....

RSA new rules may 2011 do not know if these rules were ever implemented ....

3.3 g 50 grains springbok moutain reedbuck
6.6 g 100 grains impala warthog blesbuk common reedbuck nyala ewe
8.4 g 130 grains tssessebe hartebeest black wildebeest nyala
9 g 150 grains kudu gemsbock leopard roan sable blue wildebeest
11 g 175 grains up to eland
16.2 g 250 grains lion buffalo giraffe
19.5 g 300 grains elephant rhinoceros hippotamus + fmj or monolithic construction


Namibia there is no 7mm mini this is a NAPHA thing not regulations at all. but 5400 joules may be hard to reach in the 9.3x62. there is no indication for lion nor leopard in the namibian regulations. so yes for Namibia i already agreed on it.

Zimbabwe the late Don Heath worked on the level and it is now 5000 joules or 3688 ft lbs ... so available for 9.3.

enjoy the exchange.

while the 375hh is universal the 9,3 is not far behind ....
 
Yeah, we get it, you're a 338 Win mag fan. Keep telling yourself it's the greatest thing since slice bread or boobs.
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No need to be rude, I thought this was a relatively civil discussion. Yes I like the .338, my original point was that it is pretty similar to the 9.3x62 which I didn't know was so wildly controversial.

I have seen the 9.3x62 compared to the .338 and 35 whelen many times, hardly a new idea. David Petzal I think had an article calling it "the German .338"

I am not suggesting anything, you are just reading into things. In fact you have gone out of your way to tell me I don't understand another users post when I clearly do.

I can only look at the data and see that one load is clearly hotter than the others...

Not suggesting the 9.3 is not capable of handling high pressures (pretty clearly demonstrated in this thread that is.), more than anything I was trying to confirm my idea about case construction was correct. Or else I guess I can just sell my super awesome best caliber ever .338 and buy a .308 t3 and fill my cases up with as much lil gun as I can fit behind a 220 grain bullet...

I look at the discussions on this board as more of a learning experience than anything, sorry if I don't agree with your opinion but I am always interested to read what others have to say.

If I have learned anything from this thread it is that the 9.3 is capable of outdoing the .338...
 
Started shooting 9.3x62 just a few months ago and what amazes me is the avaliability of all those factory ammo with bullet weights from 184gr all the way up to 325 gr. It is mostly European manufacturers and it is a bit expensive but the avaliability of factory ammo in all those bullet weights and construction(a lot of them for dangerous game) is unprecedented I believe (and yes I shoot 308 win and 30-06 also).
 
Conor, the brass is almost always going to be the weakest part of the equation when discussing a modern bolkt action rifle. If a rifle will take the pressure of a new cartridge, it should also be able to take loading a old cartridge to a similar pressure, brass strength withstanding. The way to determine where you can get to is by carefully working up a load. Using a program like Quickload is an asset for this stuff, too. Be wary of loads that are worked by others, as they may be way over accepted pressure, even without pressure signs.
 
Thanks Gatehouse, that kind of reply/advice is what keep me tuned in to this board. Especially the idea of being "way over accepted pressure..without pressure signs", not something I had really thought of.
 
Rubber mallets on bolts and ejector marks on brass aside....what are people trying to acheive by overloading? It cant be that important to prove something to someone on the internet, that one needs to create a pipe bomb.

Literally it is like reaching for a 6 iron golfing instead of trying to over hit a 7 iron. The 338, 9.3, 35 Whelan are all useful cartridges, but they dont equal a H&H or a Ruger. Each has positives over the others, less recoil, better long range performance, more available components and projectiles.

One old loading book had a blurb on each caliber, the 375 H&H blurb went something like this. It isnt the gun you reach for in trying a cross canyon shot at a Elk, it isnt the one you take Sheep hunting, it isnt the best all around for Africa. But it can do all of those things. ......

Personally i own two 338wm, a 375 Rum, and had a H&H. One can easily download the Rum to H&H level or even 375 win levels. Same with my 300 Rum, throttle it back to 300 win or 30-06 level. Load specific loads. My 300 Rum has a long range load that needs single loading because of COAL, and a magazine length walking load. These sort of things are easily possible for the others, a small projectile in the 9.3 would give up very little to the 338wm at range. Something like a 235 in a H&H has great trajectory.

For the three calibers in the OP, any do the job. If one owns one the other three are redundant.
 
That's the exact reason I have 375JDJ - 375H&H - 375RUM chambered rifles.

14" barreled 375JDJ + 235gr bullets = 2050fps and I just bought 200 + Hornady 220gr flat point jacketed bullets to up the velocity and have better expansion at the lower velocities

21" barreled 375JDJ + 260gr Accubonds = 2300fps

22" barreled 375H&H + 270gr semi spitzers = 2600fps and 300gr = 2400fps

21" barreled 375RUM + 260gr Accubonds = 3020fps, 300gr = 2775fps and 350gr TSX = 2450fps
 
Well, I own and use several 9.3's and I too, don't understand that practice of making "poor man's magnum" ... when I need something hitting harder, I take a bigger rifle... but hey! that's just me!
 
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I don't see a single person here advocating overloading the 9.3 ...... so wtf ???

again , this is a old round and pressures for reloading tables and and loaded ammo are going to reflect that .

but if your in a modern action that can withstand modern pressures , the 9.3 has a lot of room to grow .

pressures don't sneak up on you if your observant . the easiest way I've found so far is measuring casehead expansion ... but that can be somewhat subjective and require some experience , but much more accurate than reading primers .
 
Well, that's your call, can"t see the reason for the WTF!
You do whatever you want with your stuff. I do whatever I want with mine.... I have my opinion and you have yours, good enough?!?! ;)

Case head expansion have been proven unreliable and to don't reflect actual pressure for years, just like CUP, as they do not have a linear compression scheme... hence the piezo....
The closest one can get to piezo is by using pressure tracing devices... while they may have some utility, primer appearance and case head expansion are just other names for guestimation.
 
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Ardent said:
Sorry we must not be reading the same data :redface: Nips at the heels? The .375 H&H is moving both 250 and 265gr bullets at a whiff shy of 3,000fps in that data- that's .270 Winchester trajectory territory. The 9.3 is moving a 270 at 2630fps for 4,145ft-lbs max in the same warmer data you provided there, and the .375 H&H is moving a 265gr at 2,986fps for 5,248ft-lbs in comparison. That's a 356fps deficit for the 9.3x62 in speed, and 1,100ft-lbs of energy short. That's the spitting image of the difference between a .308 Winchester and a .300 Win Mag, and probably the best analogy we'll find in comparing the two cartridges. Both shoot similar bullet weights, one fits in smaller, lighter rifles, less recoil, burns less powder and kills anything the bigger one will. It will however not offer anything close to the trajectory and range of it's bigger competitor.
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That's comparing apples to oranges again: I assume you have an exterior ballistics program on your computer, if not there are several available on the Internet, such as Hornady's.

Try this comparison between the .375 H&H firing a 300gr NP (.398BC) at 2550 fps (22.5"), and a 286gr NP at 2622 fps (real life at 64,000 psi - 22.5") from my Tikka 9.3 X 62, all the way to 500 yds and THEN tell me that the .375 H&H is in another class and has a longer effective range. The 300gr from the .375 H&H (or Ruger) is still limited, as is the 286 (9.3) to 1800 fps for effective expansion.

And, by the way, I've owned three .375 H&H's, one with a 22" that would barely make 2560 fps from 300's. That would be comparing apples to apples, I think.

Let us all know what you discover!

Edit to add: and yes, I know that a .375 H&H given a 26" will outclass the Ruger with a 24". I made 2700 fps from 300's in my 26" H&H. That outclasses the 9.3 X 62 by quite a bit. But that's apples to oranges again.


Bob

www.bigbores.ca
 
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nowarningshot said:
. . .
The 338, 9.3, 35 Whelan are all useful cartridges, but they dont equal a H&H or a Ruger.
. . .
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Now that's interesting, and may or may-not be true today with the advent of premium bullets. Finn Aagarrd suggested that over many years of professional and personal hunting in Africa, and the observation of hundreds of kills, the .375 H&H and 9.3X62 proved equally effective on game, and that no advantage could be attributed to one over the other, despite the .375's apparent ballistic advantage on paper. I don't think this is particularly surprising, since the high velocity .375 H&H loads of the day required stronger bullets, that were slower to expand. Recall that many old timers opined that the factory 300 gr .375 H&H load would out penetrate all other soft point loads; suggesting less or slower expansion, despite a relatively high impact velocity. Where the softer 286 gr 9.3 bullets impacted with 200 fps less velocity, the tough Knyoch .375/300 gr SPs had to survive the impact on heavy game, at the blistering velocity of 2500 fps, the 9.3 286 gr RN bullets expanded more quickly, yet had sufficient mass to ensure good penetration.
 
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Bob- I have no dog in this fight but physics doesn't agree with you. The 375 h&h has more powder capacity and a bigger surface area of the base of the bullet (although it isn't much). So there just is no way that the two rounds mentioned could be at the same pressure when you say the 9.3 fired a 286 grain bullet at 2622 vs the 300 grain 375 bullet at 2550.

Although I do agree with you that the bullet with the higher BC will have better long range ballistics.
 
Throttle_monkey1 said:
Bob- I have no dog in this fight but physics doesn't agree with you. The 375 h&h has more powder capacity and a bigger surface area of the base of the bullet (although it isn't much). So there just is no way that the two rounds mentioned could be at the same pressure when you say the 9.3 fired a 286 grain bullet at 2622 vs the 300 grain 375 bullet at 2550.

Although I do agree with you that the bullet with the higher BC will have better long range ballistics.
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please read what Boomer wrote about it just above you.

Phil
 
Baribal said:
Well, that's your call, can"t see the reason for the WTF!
You do whatever you want with your stuff. I do whatever I want with mine.... I have my opinion and you have yours, good enough?!?! ;)

Case head expansion have been proven unreliable and to don't reflect actual pressure for years, just like CUP, as they do not have a linear compression scheme... hence the piezo....
The closest one can get to piezo is by using pressure tracing devices... while they may have some utility, primer appearance and case head expansion are just other names for guestimation.
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Baribal can you tell me where to find literature on the failure for case head expansion to predict pressure please? I have a close relative that uses it all the time and I'd rather him not blow up.

Thanks

CP
 
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