Picture of the day

[Philthy1]

USS Iowa in a floating dry dock at Ulithi in the Western Pacific. That dock must have been massive.
I wonder how long it took to build and to get it to Ulithi!

Ive never seen that. Absolutely incredible.

 

[Rod B]

Then you should know the Military can be extremely hard on people. For every one person taking advantage of the system, there are probably 10 times that who are in need of it but wont come forward because of the stigma you and others are propagating. I used to think like you too until I did a 3 year stint at Brigade HQ as G1 Services and saw EVERYONES file. There were dudes who were literally killing themselves because of that stupid ####ing " I dont want to be called a faker/malingerer" or "someome else has it harder". I buried friends for that so it really REALLY gets me when folks in the Military and Civilians try to catatorize who is a vet and who isnt. Who is deserving of Dis Comp and who isnt. Egos kill more people than enemy fire and I think the fact there are still folks trying to put themselves on a higher pedestal than another Vet shows that our Military is fractured

As for being on Parade and judging peoples service by gongs on their chest, if you can judge a soldier by the hardware they wear, you must be psychic because some of the WORST soldiers I ever saw had SWASMs and Afgan stars and some of the BEST had an SSM for Germany and a CD or nothing at all. Who is more of a soldier and Vet? The Purple Trade Cpl working the pay cage in KAF for 6 months during their short 3 year contract with the CF who releases physically/mentally no worse for wear or the Combat Arms Cpl who hurts his back pulling metal coffins off planes in Trenton for 3 full years but is released medically unfit and with no medals?

I agree, while I was serving (1961 - '66) we had many WW2 Vets with an array of medals. These men were respected by all. We also had a female supply sergeant who had more medals than the S/L that was in charge of our section. He had seen action; she had not.

 

[Mike Webb]

I agree, while I was serving (1961 - '66) we has many WW2 Vets with many medals. They were respected by all. We also had a female supply sergeant who had more medals than the S/L that was in charge of our section. He had seen action; she had not.

My uncle served in Northern Europe in '44 and '45 he told me once that the "medal" thing was a crock in some cases. He claimed that some of the bravest individuals he had ever seen received no bravery decorations while commisioned officers seemed to have them pinned on with regularity with no special performance. Perhaps he had an enlisted man's bias.

 

[t-star]

and perhaps not- in a somewhat later war a lot of navy crosses were "rerouted " to co's and desk jockeys instead of those actually doing the fighting- and this is documented

 

[purple]

To be honest most troops were just glad enough to get home in one piece without getting the wooden cross. There's always a lot of silliness and politics in the honors and awards department, but there are a lot of amazing people who did get the decorations that they deserved.

 

[Gibbs505]

Why would she be in drydock, I wonder?? Torpedo hit from a Japanese submarine?

The dock would have to have been built on the West Coast of the US (no way in hell it would fit through the Panama Canal - the Iowa class battlewagons barely did, and I doubt the Aussies had the capability) and towed across the Pacific by USN tugs. I imagine it would take quite a while!!!

Most likely in dock for routine maintenance, cleaning the bottom and things like that. Heavier work like a torpedo hit would be done at the west coast or pearl.
Yeah, must have been a heck of a tow!!

 

[Recce21]

I have ALWAYS hated the minimalist British style of Honours and Awards we have unfortunetly perpetuated in Canada. While the American way of loading up uniforms with bling like Idi Amin is an extreme the other way, you have to admit that when less than .45% of the Canadian population has ever even passed Basic Training, there is merit in at least having a ribbon for it to wear on your dress uniform. I dont know why the mentality in Canada is that in the theoretical event that recognition is given and the person receiving it is somehow deemed unworthy by some, it is decided we under award EVERYBODY. If I cant have it no one can style of thinking.

That mentality is why we dont award the VC anymore. I see no benefit to limiting recognition, especially in the Military. I can only surmise that the folks who refuse to expand our Honours and Awards are only against it because they have some sort of inferiority complex and are afraid that expanded H and A will threaten their ego.

 

[MarkCNP]

 

[Dark Alley Dan]

Man, that's a photograph of "character" that just happens to have a guy in it.

What a great pic. Thanks for that. Between the wars, I'm guessing?

 

[purple]

Nice medals, but bad teeth. Looks like the French Army was a bit light on dental officers at the time. The Brit/Cdn dental standard used to be, "sufficient teeth to masticate the rations". Always tough to get that old "tooth to tail" ratio right.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I have ALWAYS hated the minimalist British style of Honours and Awards we have unfortunetly perpetuated in Canada. While the American way of loading up uniforms with bling like Idi Amin is an extreme the other way, you have to admit that when less than .45% of the Canadian population has ever even passed Basic Training, there is merit in at least having a ribbon for it to wear on your dress uniform. I dont know why the mentality in Canada is that in the theoretical event that recognition is given and the person receiving it is somehow deemed unworthy by some, it is decided we under award EVERYBODY. If I cant have it no one can style of thinking.

That mentality is why we dont award the VC anymore. I see no benefit to limiting recognition, especially in the Military. I can only surmise that the folks who refuse to expand our Honours and Awards are only against it because they have some sort of inferiority complex and are afraid that expanded H and A will threaten their ego.

I would argue that our medal system is more than sufficient. The medals actually mean something, and are not just there for show. Your statement, that they are afraid to expand it because of there ego, couldn't we say your argument to expand it is because of your ego and what you feel you deserve? The main defect in our system is that for someone to get a medal they have to be written up for whatever citation they want by there CoC. Depending on the narrative writing skills of the individual (i.e. your CoC), it can make a little event seem like a war changing event, or a major event seem like nothing. Usually when it comes to our writing it tends to lean on the seems like nothing side of things.

In terms of the VCs not being handed out, has anyone actually done something recently which would be worthy of a VC? If you read the stories of the things these people did, they are extreme to say the least. VCs have never been common, with only 71 handed out to Canadians in WWI, and 16 handed out to Canadians in WWII. And if you look at the amount of people who served in those conflicts, percentage wise you have more of a chance of winning the lottery than earning one of those.

 

[diopter]

Personally, think money from pensions, disability payments, and decent jobs would be more appreciated for all members of the forces.

 

[Sharps '63]

We'll take it from the millions budgeted for the Syrian refugees resettlement in Canada .....

Personally, think money from pensions, disability payments, and decent jobs would be more appreciated for all members of the forces.

 

[beltfed]

If it is one thing I admire about the American award system it is the CIB. Canada could do well to impliment a similar honour.

 

[Gibbs505]

I would argue that our medal system is more than sufficient. The medals actually mean something, and are not just there for show. Your statement, that they are afraid to expand it because of there ego, couldn't we say your argument to expand it is because of your ego and what you feel you deserve? The main defect in our system is that for someone to get a medal they have to be written up for whatever citation they want by there CoC. Depending on the narrative writing skills of the individual (i.e. your CoC), it can make a little event seem like a war changing event, or a major event seem like nothing. Usually when it comes to our writing it tends to lean on the seems like nothing side of things.

In terms of the VCs not being handed out, has anyone actually done something recently which would be worthy of a VC? If you read the stories of the things these people did, they are extreme to say the least. VCs have never been common, with only 71 handed out to Canadians in WWI, and 16 handed out to Canadians in WWII. And if you look at the amount of people who served in those conflicts, percentage wise you have more of a chance of winning the lottery than earning one of those.

Not to mention that a lot of those VC's were awarded posthumous.

 

[Recce21]

Funny enough, They tried to in 2008-2009ish. DHH 4 announced the creation of a Combat Action Insignia to be placed on the medal ribbon. It was a colour coordinated Maple Leaf to denote being involved in a two way range. It was scrapped under objections that it would create two classes of soldiers which I find absolutely ridiculous. But that was just one example that made me totally against our crappy H and A system. I believe that over recognition is better than under recognizing which is what the CF does. It was a fight to create the Sacrifice Medal FFS, the old guard wanted to keep the Wound Stripe and thought the Sacrifice Medal was beneath us to essentially create the Canadian Purple Heart. My objections come from being the Bde Honours and Awards dude from 2008-2011 when I saw good soldiers passed up over and over for even a flippin Commanders Coin due to wording from the Unit or the Chair just plain not believing it was warranted for a good reason or not.

If it is one thing I admire about the American award system it is the CIB. Canada could do well to impliment a similar honour.

 

[beltfed]

...It was scrapped under objections that it would create two classes of soldiers which I find absolutely ridiculous.

Sounds like a typical Liebral approach.
To be fair, you could easily split it in two: combat arms and non-combat arms.

I released in early 2001 prior to 911 and saw the military from 90's coloured glasses that made everything look pretty sh!tty, but even my dad who was in from the mid-50s to early 80s was pretty bummed about what the Libs did to a proud Army, Navy and Air Force with amalgamation/'unification'.
I know the conservatives did some good with restoring some things like RCAF and RCEME but those are really just in name only, correct?
You guys still have airforce and navy admin serving in infantry battalions? That sh!t is f$cked up, no matter how you put it.
The government of Canada and the majority of politicians do not recognize our Armed Forces as a military, they see it as a branch of an extended and bloated civil service. I think the amount of non-combat arms that think along the same lines as our politicians would surprise you (or maybe not).

 

[Eaglelord17]

I released in early 2001 prior to 911 and saw the military from 90's coloured glasses that made everything look pretty sh!tty, but even my dad who was in from the mid-50s to early 80s was pretty bummed about what the Libs did to a proud Army, Navy and Air Force with amalgamation/'unification'.
I know the conservatives did some good with restoring some things like RCAF and RCEME but those are really just in name only, correct?
You guys still have airforce and navy admin serving in infantry battalions? That sh!t is f$cked up, no matter how you put it.
The government of Canada and the majority of politicians do not recognize our Armed Forces as a military, they see it as a branch of an extended and bloated civil service. I think the amount of non-combat arms that think along the same lines as our politicians would surprise you (or maybe not).

The majority of currently serving members really don't care about bringing back the whole RCAF, RCEME, RCN etc. We would much rather have good kit than have some new name FORCED on us with millions spent to make it happen. It may come as a surprise to some, but the reality is most of us don't care about what our branch is called, or if it was called that in the past. In the history of the Canadian Military, we spent just as long under the unification names, as we did under the pre-unification names (actually you could argue longer for some unification names, as many of the pre-unification names changed several times before hand).

I couldn't care less about what they call my job as long as they give me the tools to do it. When we waste all our money on buttons and bows and stupid name changes which do nothing for morale its not a surprise when we find our forces falling apart.

Edited to add: Sorry if the tone seems fairly hostile, but I was just getting a bit frustrated considering for a bit I was stuck using metric bolts with imperial nuts as we didn't even have the most basic parts in stock. I'm going to pop off this thread for a bit, and hopefully some pictures come back.

 

[Dark Alley Dan]

...aaaaaanyhoo, pictures:

"Unidentified crew commander in a Ram tank at A33 Canadian Armoured Corps Training Establishment Location: Camp Borden, Ontario, Canada Date: 7. July 1943 Photographer: Bell, Lieut. Ken"

 

[Dark Alley Dan]

And because I found it, think it's neat, and didn't want to forget about it, here's quite an arrangement:

Gotta think riding "upstairs" would give one a seriously uncomfortable "tipping over" feeling on most corners. But if the other option was donkey transport, I guess a guy could live with it...