Uclulet FN removes chief and bans him from hunting privileges

[conor_90]

^ also that cedar tree is the size of a small apartment building and it also has a massive boulder for sinking ships tied to a cedar rope sitting waiting to be thrown and retrieved. To keep it topical they even mounted guns on their war canoes once they sank a few American ships.

NW coast First Nations not only had art; the Haida built intense fortifications. Tlingits wore full suits of armour. Further south groups made "villages" with massive long houses with beautiful doorways in the shape of orcas that opened and closed their mouths with levers*.

Between the wood working, stone work that looks like it was done on lathes and intensive ecosystem modification throughout the coast I think we can drop the primitive stuff. I know Gatehouse put those quotation marks there for a reason though.


*

I know it's off topic but here is an example of the "portal" doorway, you enter through the orca's mouth. Forces you to duck, so when raiders from the north come you can stand and face them one at a time.

 

[patrickosuave]

Thank you Carverk, for sticking it out and continuing to contribute to this forum. As a community we would be worse off without you.

CGN is a wide cross section of people from coast to coast. The one thing we have in common is an interest in firearms.
Unfortunately, it is common for us not to take into account our regional/cultural differences.

Many have witnessed indiscretions committed by both sides of the native/non-native community. The way those indiscretions are dealt with in regards to enforcement and sentencing (regarding fish and wildlife management)is ONE area which breeds resentment between the two parties.
There is no question in my mind that historically, natives were taken advantage of. However, it was the way things were done during colonization all over the world. We are left to pick up the pieces.

Giving special rights to one group over the other is a recipe for resentment. Special rights and opportunity for refugees, visible minorities, women,natives etc etc. can result in only thing: resentment by anyone who is not included.
Natives know this full well, as there was a time when they were the ones who were "not included".
I don't know what the answer is going forward, but I know if we continue to carve ourselves up as citizens we are doomed.
I have been fortunate enough to have spent time with coastal native bands,and I was treated with respect while in their community.

That said, the Haida have and continue to be the alpha male of the west coast tribes. They are a proud, fierce and committed group. Do not make the mistake of drawing comparisons between them and other tribes across this nation.

I wish all citizens of this great nation the best,,,,equally. I can only hope that we have not fragmented ourselves beyond the point of resolution.

 

[carverk]

We want to separate we can do just fine on are own so keep your beads
We are a nashion of fisherman surrounded by ocean
Haidas will never leave or surrender Haida Gwaii ther will never be a treaty so your going have to live with us or let us go are own way
Think of it as a divorce you take your stuf and we take are stuf and be dun with it once and for good

 

[Gatehouse]

The first time I was on the Queen Charlotte Islands/Haida Gwaii it was 1982 and I was 14 years old. We kayaked from the top to the bottom and back, over a month. We asked for- and was granted permission- to visit and camp at many Haida heritage sites, places that I think are mostly off limits now. We were amazed at the infrastructure and totem poles that had stood for 100 or more years, built out of wood, in a very wet place that encourages wood to rot.

I've been back a few times and must go again soon.

It's a special place, and the people that live there - Haida, white and half and half - are special people. Proud, fierce and committed is a good description.

I also think we all need to figure this schit out. The deck was stacked against the Natives originally, now the deck is the other way. Need ALL stakeholders to decide the best way to carve up the pie in a fair and equitable manner, but more importantly, decide how to make a BIGGER pie, for all of us.

 

[stilty]

Read your history we are not Canadians

That is true. One only has to look back at the Jay Treaty of 1794. FN people are identified as their own nation. Not Canadian, nor American, and free to travel and trade without borders. And to this day, FN people from Canada are free to enter the US for the purpose of employment, study, retirement, investing, and/or immigration.

And in BC, it is a totally different game then the rest of Canada. Whether you like it or not, agree with it, or disagree with it. Technically all the land in BC belongs to the First Nations. No treaties were signed in BC, other then the recent Nisga'a Treaty, and maybe one other?

And if I'm not mistaken, I don't even think I have title to any of the real estate I have purchased in BC. I'd have to look into it further, but I don't think anyone gets title to land in BC as they do in the rest of Canada.

 

[carverk]

The first time I was on the Queen Charlotte Islands/Haida Gwaii it was 1982 and I was 14 years old. We kayaked from the top to the bottom and back, over a month. We asked for- and was granted permission- to visit and camp at many Haida heritage sites, places that I think are mostly off limits now. We were amazed at the infrastructure and totem poles that had stood for 100 or more years, built out of wood, in a very wet place that encourages wood to rot.

I've been back a few times and must go again soon.

It's a special place, and the people that live there - Haida, white and half and half - are special people. Proud, fierce and committed is a good description.

I also think we all need to figure this schit out. The deck was stacked against the Natives originally, now the deck is the other way. Need ALL stakeholders to decide the best way to carve up the pie in a fair and equitable manner, but more importantly, decide how to make a BIGGER pie, for all of us.

We still alow vister to the old villages with permission but have to send a Watchmen along do to people stilling and vandalism it's a better experience having your own guide anywase

 

[98ssuck]

The Haida villages in Gwaii haanas and skedans are absolutely beautiful. It is a shame the things people have done to those villages. But the watchmen do a amazing job and frankly have a dream job. I wish I had the qualifications to do it.

 

[Gatehouse]

We still alow vister to the old villages with permission but have to send a Watchmen along do to people stilling and vandalism it's a better experience having your own guide anywase

We had Watchmen visit us atone of the sites- Skedans (IIRC), in their Boston Whaler. Got out to check us out, rifles slung over shoulders. I thought that was cool.

We chatted for a pretty long time around our cooking fire on the beach, they told us some history, walked around with us, showed us some stuff. They told us lots about the old longhouses we were looking at. I was the youngest at 14, my brother was 16 and there were a few 17-18 years and our leader who was about 30. Myself and one of the other kids were avid fishermen and we talked about fish a bit, too. All of us had been raised with the "no trace/take nothing but memories/leave nothing but footprints" ideology of camping and could never fathom those that want to destroy or steal artifacts.

Unfortunately, I can see how nowadays you must insist on a Watchman, because there are so many people these days, and so many just don't get it.

PS I also thought they had a pretty cool job

 

[GMC403]

We want to separate we can do just fine on are own so keep your beads
We are a nashion of fisherman surrounded by ocean
Haidas will never leave or surrender Haida Gwaii ther will never be a treaty so your going have to live with us or let us go are own way
Think of it as a divorce you take your stuf and we take are stuf and be dun with it once and for good

I had to take a break from this thread because it was going sideways......... but seriously?

This is such an incredibly ridiculous statement I can't even believe you typed it. You would be fine on your own eh?



Ok, fair enough. I'll keep my beads, so then: No power for anything, No phones, No vehicles, No Ferries to cross (back to canoes for ya), No buses to get to that "white mans" job you were off to. No grocery stores, no gas stations (won't need em). No ATRS modern Hunter for you, No liquor or Meth (yeah I've been to the QCI)

No nothing, after not needing "us" for anything you'd do just fine........ Riiiiiiiiight. Okay sounds great.

If you can do just fine on your own then why not start now?.... Why not?...... Take the reigns, practice what your preaching on here. You make it sound so simple and yet you don't do it......... Why?

You've been accusing the CGN community of Racism and ignorance throughout this entire thread, yet all you've done is harass and threaten people about what's to come if WE don't start being compliant with you and how we're long overdue on our rent cheque. Even when somebody does post something positive and informs people about what a proud and history rich people's the FN are you still just spit verbal diarrhea.

BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POST**************

It's nice to see some accountability and self governance in the FN community.

 

[carverk]

I had to take a break from this thread because it was going sideways......... but seriously?

This is such an incredibly ridiculous statement I can't even believe you typed it. You would be fine on your own eh?



Ok, fair enough. I'll keep my beads, so then: No power for anything, No phones, No vehicles, No Ferries to cross (back to canoes for ya), No buses to get to that "white mans" job you were off to. No grocery stores, no gas stations (won't need em). No ATRS modern Hunter for you, No liquor or Meth (yeah I've been to the QCI)

No nothing, after not needing "us" for anything you'd do just fine........ Riiiiiiiiight. Okay sounds great.

If you can do just fine on your own then why not start now?.... Why not?...... Take the reigns, practice what your preaching on here. You make it sound so simple and yet you don't do it......... Why?

You've been accusing the CGN community of Racism and ignorance throughout this entire thread, yet all you've done is harass and threaten people about what's to come if WE don't start being compliant with you and how we're long overdue on our rent cheque. Even when somebody does post something positive and informs people about what a proud and history rich people's the FN are you still just spit verbal diarrhea.

BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POST**************

It's nice to see some accountability and self governance in the FN community.

yah like you guys will just let us go
there is a fight coming and it is going to be payed out on Haida Gwaii and in the courts and every BC FN is watching
We have title to the land now we fight for the water around Haida Gwaii
Yes this has to do with the regional post and why would we work with you
is this your guys idea of mutual respect

 

[GMC403]

yah like you guys will just let us go
there is a fight coming and it is going to be payed out on Haida Gwaii and in the courts and every BC FN is watching
We have title to the land now we fight for the water around Haida Gwaii
Yes this has to do with the regional post and why would we work with you
is this your guys idea of mutual respect

Is this yours?

Keep talking if you want....... I'm done.

 

[ratherbefishin]

There are a lot of inequities and past wrongs,and the only thing we know for sure nobody is going to win a pissing match ,and the game populations are going to take the brunt of it.As far as 'rights' are concerned,the first thing to determine is who exactly is a FN person? If you use DNA, 400 years of intermarriage virtually guarantees very few Canadians who have lived here for two or three generations ( my family has been here since the early 1700's) do NOT have FN genes .ALL French Canadians do( there were no European women who accompanied the original French trappers,and it's pretty long cold winter nights in Quebec...,nuff said)

Probably the Haida's due to their isolation and warlike history are the least likely to have European blood( although they regularly raided down the coast and took slaves back home,which were likely not 'pure' FN)
But the fact is,historical injustices not withstanding,( and the Haidas purpetrated their fair share of that on other FN,raiding,raping and pillaging,nobody's history is very pretty)the salient question us where do we go from here? Some bands are doing very well, with strong leadership, welfare is virtually unknown(Osoyus) while others are stuck in the past,marginalized and brought up with 'welfare mentality'( I had a conversation with an elderly FN who said 'you want to destroy a culture?-put them on welfare)

Clearly the solution is NOT throwing more money at it( the Federal Government allots $15,000 per capita to FN,THREE times everybody else) nor is going in and building expensive recreational faciities, which unfortionaly are often trashed...it's got to be a JOINT effort with LOCAL investment in both money and effort( people who build things themselves gave a vested interest in keeping it up).but unfortionaly the 'trickle down' effect is missing,many FN live in third world condions,a far cry from when they built their own homes,provided for themselves and had a strong social system..ironically the FN who wanted to live a traditional lifestyle of providing for themselves by trapping-we decided it was 'unethical' and 'cruel' and wouldn't buy their fur....

The only way this will change is education, strong leadership ,accountability and role models...and the bands that have committed to that are showing the benefits of it...
Part of this will be game management,sharing,not exploiting the resource...I know of one band that has a large land base, good elk populations, and the opportunity to bring in much needed capital and jobs by providing excellent hunting experiances ...but they can't agree on how to share it among themselves,so the opportunity is passing them by...that's the attitude that has to change....on BOTH sides...and EVERYBODY wins...if we don't everybody LOSES.

As I have said,my encounters and interaction with FN people have mainly been positive...like the hunting trip way north where we introduced ourselves at the FN camp,asked permission to hunt on their traditional land( which we didn't HAVE to do but it's polite),which was recipricated by offers to use their facilities ,help to get a moose out if we got one ,an invitation to share a meal and my hunting partner who is a surgeon told them he was available if there was a medical emergency( we were 100 mlles from a hospital)

The upshot was while we didn't get a moose,we were invited back and given contact information to plan another trip-there is NO reason why this shouldn't be the rule rather than the exception..if we BOTH want it to be..apartheid doesn't work...never has,never will...

 

[S1de8urnz]

I feel like you guys are being dooped. This most likely had a political agenda over an enviromental issue. Need the chief gone? Dont run against him, get him banned.

 

[Blegend]

Wow is this thread a train wreck. Both sides need to chill already

 

[langbanger]

That's the problem, in Canada there should not be two sides, which will only be possible with true equal rights.

 

[trevj]

^ also that cedar tree is the size of a small apartment building and it also has a massive boulder for sinking ships tied to a cedar rope sitting waiting to be thrown and retrieved. To keep it topical they even mounted guns on their war canoes once they sank a few American ships.

NW coast First Nations not only had art; the Haida built intense fortifications. Tlingits wore full suits of armour. Further south groups made "villages" with massive long houses with beautiful doorways in the shape of orcas that opened and closed their mouths with levers*.

Between the wood working, stone work that looks like it was done on lathes and intensive ecosystem modification throughout the coast I think we can drop the primitive stuff. I know Gatehouse put those quotation marks there for a reason though.


*

I know it's off topic but here is an example of the "portal" doorway, you enter through the orca's mouth. Forces you to duck, so when raiders from the north come you can stand and face them one at a time.

Hmmmm.... Well, I guess if I were a Raider from the North, it would look like a pretty decent place to stack a bunch of firewood for a bit of a burn to do the job on those inside, but maybe they didn't see it that way.

The short version of things was that they lived in the midst of so much food a blind man would have had to have worked at it to starve, year round.

That gave them time to build, make art, develop a trade and war culture, and generally prosper, because they did not spend every waking hour scrabbling for enough food to survive.

But those days are pretty much gone. Welcome to Canada. The other option is to print your own money, and hope someone else wants it badly enough to allow it to have any value away from your own home town.

Eventually, the Indian Act will get chucked on a fire, and we can do away with one more set of hyphenated, unequal people in the Country. Sooner would be better, as it has created far more problems and divisions, than it has solved.

Did the Indians get treated poorly? Yep. Why would they expect to be treated any different than the way the people in power at the time treated their own kind? History is full of examples of the rich turfing the poor off whatever corner that they saw fit to want, but you don't see a bunch of Irish blocking roads and bridges, as one example.

Cheers
Trev

 

[conor_90]

^ don't know much about cedar wood and areas with 90% humidity eh?

The ecosystem did not just magically provide food; from clam gardens to stream management the area had some of the most intensive ecosystem modification of anywhere in North America. Archaeologists like to say; Europeans domesticate plants and animals Indigenous Americans domesticated ecosystems.

I have to SMH at the last part; the real Republicans fought tooth and nail until very recently and some are still going.

I bet if you were a residential school survivor, who could not own the deed to his own house, and lived somewhere with no potable water you wouldn't be too excited about your "special privileges"...

 

[bearkilr]

I bet if you were a residential school survivor, who could not own the deed to his own house, and lived somewhere with no potable water you wouldn't be too excited about your "special privelages"...

And there it is, the residential school card. The new root of all problems.

It's pretty easy to own a house. Buy one like everyone else, they're for sale across Canada.

 

[conor_90]

"easy to buy property; just disenfranchise yourself and move away from your ancestral homeland"



The ignorance in this thread is outstanding; but what else can you really expect?

I'll try my best to avoid it from now on; I guess actually learning about the Indian Act and gov't policies of assimilation is too much for you guys. If you knew anything about residential schools you wouldn't be downplaying them...

 

[bearkilr]

"easy to buy property; just disenfranchise yourself and move away from your ancestral homeland"

Time to move on. I live in a very rural area and 90% of the people I grew up with have moved a long time ago as there is no job opportunity here for them anymore. Many of their ancestors were immigrant farmers that came over here with nothing. And yes, some of these also went to residential school, though they're not eligible for handouts, nor do they ask for them.
When everything is free, nothing is appreciated and nothing is ever enough.