Savage 10TR le/military

[Evil_Dark]

How did you come up with your initial COAL anyways? Have you checked the load for pressure signs?

I used the cleaning rod method: Closed the bolt and inerted the cleaning rod until it touches the bo;t face, then I screwed a shaft collar on that cleaning rod touching the muzzle. Then I removed the bolt, insterted a bullet (the same as the one I reload) in the chamber, pushed it into the lands with another rod, then pushed back my cleaning rod until it touches the tip of the bullet, then placed another shaft collar on the cleaning rod at the muzzle. Then I only had to measure with my caliper the distance between the two edges of the shaft collar that were touching the muzzle.

I'm already on the low end of the powder charge, I don't have any high pressure signs. I've done the powder charge ladde test, then Increased the COAL until the best grouping, ended to 2.793", never tested more tall. I've tested my loads at -5 degrees C to +22 degrees C with this COAL.

Dark

 

[awndray]

I've taken another measurment, and I ended to 2.660". So my cartridge at 2.793 is pushed into lands... Hopefully I neved got an bullet stuck in the barred while de-chambering a round.

I think that 10TR have very small chambers!!! (it's my first .308win so I can't compare...)

Dark

Using a Hornady bullet comparator with my digital calipers my max COAL is 2.238" for my TR. Noticeably tighter than the max COAL of 2.266" for my 10 FCP-SR. Keep in mind these numbers may not mean anything to you if you're not measuring with a bullet comparator. Different bullets will have different profiles thus affecting the overall length if you're only measuring from base to bullet tip.
The only downside I foresee with the tighter chamber is it ultimately limits your case capacity when you load 175/178 grain bullets. Fortunately for me my rifle preferred the lower node recipe for 178gr Amax. If I had to favor the higher node at around 45ish grains the load becomes compressed.

Using 168gr Hornady A-Max, this is what mine measure with the Hornady comparator.

Cartridge Base to Ogive: 2.194"
Cartridge Overall Length: 2.810"

 

[Jwan320]

Using 168gr Hornady A-Max, this is what mine measure with the Hornady comparator.

Cartridge Base to Ogive: 2.194"
Cartridge Overall Length: 2.810"

Holy smokes that's a tight chamber!! I also load 168gr Amax and love the performance out to 1000m. I've now moved up to 178gr Amax to get me to 1600m ��

 

[baggy270]

I want to know if some of you guys measured the chambers / starting of the lands on their 10TR?
I've tried to measure it this weekend and it looked like my bullets is touching lands at 2.790"? I found this to be very close, I think i've did something wrong in my measuring procedure...
Anyone measured it?

Dark

Following are my measurements to the lands so with bullet touching rifling....

Hornady 168 BTHP 2.825
Hornady 178 BTHP 2.90
Sierra 175 BTHP 2.801

I'm still playing around with the best COAL and loads. I thought I had it but after I put the EGW 20 MOA rail on I had a hard time getting it to settle down again. I'm thinking it was overly dirty with copper build up and it turns out the rear stock screw had worked loose. If it's not one thing it's another. I think my gun prefers the 168gr bullets. Going in for spinal fusion Friday so it'll be gathering dust for a bit anyway. Without going all the way back through all the information here, does anyone else find a preferred bullet weight their rifle prefers?

Dave

 

[kc34]

Following are my measurements to the lands so with bullet touching rifling....

Hornady 168 BTHP 2.825
Hornady 178 BTHP 2.90
Sierra 175 BTHP 2.801

I'm still playing around with the best COAL and loads. I thought I had it but after I put the EGW 20 MOA rail on I had a hard time getting it to settle it down again. I'm thinking it was overly dirty with copper build up and it turns out the rear stock screw had worked loose. If it's not one thing it's another. I think my gun prefers the 168gr bullets. Going in for spinal fusion Friday so it'll be gathering dust for a bit anyway. Without going all the way back through all the information here, does anyone else find a preferred bullet weight their rifle prefers?

Dave

"Going in for spinal fusion Friday"?

What the heck is spinal fusion! I really don't like the sound of that!
Good luck Dave and take it easy on the weekend.

 

[baggy270]

Using a Hornady bullet comparator with my digital calipers my max COAL is 2.238" for my TR. Noticeably tighter than the max COAL of 2.266" for my 10 FCP-SR. Keep in mind these numbers may not mean anything to you if you're not measuring with a bullet comparator. Different bullets will have different profiles thus affecting the overall length if you're only measuring from base to bullet tip.
The only downside I foresee with the tighter chamber is it ultimately limits your case capacity when you load 175/178 grain bullets. Fortunately for me my rifle preferred the lower node recipe for 178gr Amax. If I had to favor the higher node at around 45ish grains the load becomes compressed.

That can't be your COAL....that's the distance to the leade or lands....2.26 COAL would have the last .25 inch of the bullet poking out of your case! COAL is cartridge overall length or base of case to tip of bullet.

Dave

 

[baggy270]

I already have my L4 L5 vertebrae fused and they are fusing S1 L5 now too. Comes from 35 years of sitting on my ass in a car with a gun belt on.

Dave

 

[Jwan320]

That can't be your COAL....that's the distance to the leade or lands....2.26 COAL would have the last .25 inch of the bullet poking out of your case! COAL is cartridge overall length or base of case to tip of bullet.

Dave

Yes that's correct. Should've said to the lands, not overall.

 

[thump_rrr]

On the 10TR that was sent back with a funky barrel a 175gr SMK would touch the lands at 2.810" COAL.
Still patiently waiting although I've been told things are moving along.

 

[kc34]

I already have my L4 L5 vertebrae fused and they are fusing S1 L5 now too. Comes from 35 years of sitting on my ass in a car with a gun belt on.

Dave

Ouch, that doesn't sound great. I have had a few back problems but nothing to that extent.
Good luck with the surgery, hope it goes well and your back out shooting soon!

 

[jadam]

I posted this over in the gunsmithing section, but since there seems (sorry, haven't the enthusiasm at the moment to read all 929 posts in this thread!!!) to be some chamber hinkiness going on with the 10 TR, perhaps someone can relate how they resolved what I'm seeing with my Savage 10 FCP-SR in .308 Win.

I’ve just recently acquired a Hornady straight OAL gauge in an effort to improve the performance of the reloads I am making and found some very puzzling results that seem to indicate I have a VERY short freebore.

Using the OAL gauge with appropriate modified case and a Sierra Match King 175 grain bullet I get readings from the base of the case to the ogive of ~2.121”. Using a Hornady AMAX 168 grain bullet I get ~2.107" and with a Hornady Match 168 grain bullet I get ~2.112”. (This seems reasonable given the varied shapes of the bullets.)

I decided to measure a set of five 175 grain Federal Gold Medal Match (which use Sierra Match King 175 grain bullets I believe) reading ~2.206” and these definitely jam into the lands a good way. Difficult to measure, but I would venture the assumed 0.085" (i.e., 2.206" - 2.121”) is not far off.

Since the Federal Gold Medal Match COAL is a smidge under 2.800” I’m therefore looking at about 2.715” COAL to use the 175 grain Sierra Match King in an effort to just kiss the lands, which frankly seems a bit strange.

Is there any history of odd chambering on this series of rifles? I did find a post somewhere where someone indicated that Savage occasionally uses a .308 Obermeyer reamer and this sounds a lot like it might be the case here (shorter freebore.)

What really concerns me is a staggering amount of jam into the lands with a common commercial load – roughly 1/12”!! That just cannot be correct, can it?

Should I refrain from firing the rifle until it is inspected? I’ve got 600+ rounds down the pipe, including GMMs with all my fingers and toes accounted for, so I guess this isn’t a timebomb, but being limited to a 2.715" COAL without jamming seems off.

Said rifle is now making the trip to Grech for a look see. Any idea how long that might take?

 

[Evil_Dark]

Going all the way back through all the information here, does anyone else find a preferred bullet weight their rifle prefers?

Dave

I did'nt tried the 175' yet, but the 168 Hornady Match HPBT with IMR-4895 are doing a decent job. I plan to try Varget with SMK's 175 soon to try the difference, also to push the limits farther... More around 1200Y.

Dark

 

[baggy270]

I posted this over in the gunsmithing section, but since there seems (sorry, haven't the enthusiasm at the moment to read all 929 posts in this thread!!!) to be some chamber hinkiness going on with the 10 TR, perhaps someone can relate how they resolved what I'm seeing with my Savage 10 FCP-SR in .308 Win.

I’ve just recently acquired a Hornady straight OAL gauge in an effort to improve the performance of the reloads I am making and found some very puzzling results that seem to indicate I have a VERY short freebore.

Using the OAL gauge with appropriate modified case and a Sierra Match King 175 grain bullet I get readings from the base of the case to the ogive of ~2.121”. Using a Hornady AMAX 168 grain bullet I get ~2.107" and with a Hornady Match 168 grain bullet I get ~2.112”. (This seems reasonable given the varied shapes of the bullets.)

I decided to measure a set of five 175 grain Federal Gold Medal Match (which use Sierra Match King 175 grain bullets I believe) reading ~2.206” and these definitely jam into the lands a good way. Difficult to measure, but I would venture the assumed 0.085" (i.e., 2.206" - 2.121”) is not far off.

Since the Federal Gold Medal Match COAL is a smidge under 2.800” I’m therefore looking at about 2.715” COAL to use the 175 grain Sierra Match King in an effort to just kiss the lands, which frankly seems a bit strange.

Is there any history of odd chambering on this series of rifles? I did find a post somewhere where someone indicated that Savage occasionally uses a .308 Obermeyer reamer and this sounds a lot like it might be the case here (shorter freebore.)

What really concerns me is a staggering amount of jam into the lands with a common commercial load – roughly 1/12”!! That just cannot be correct, can it?

Should I refrain from firing the rifle until it is inspected? I’ve got 600+ rounds down the pipe, including GMMs with all my fingers and toes accounted for, so I guess this isn’t a timebomb, but being limited to a 2.715" COAL without jamming seems off.

Said rifle is now making the trip to Grech for a look see. Any idea how long that might take?

That could be right because I shot a box of factory Hornady 168 Amax and Federal 175 Match Kings in mine and they both shot lousy. My reloads are way better. I used the Hornady tool you mentioned as well and it's about 2.19 jammed into the lands at the ogive.

Dave

 

[jadam]

That could be right because I shot a box of factory Hornady 168 Amax and Federal 175 Match Kings in mine and they both shot lousy. My reloads are way better. I used the Hornady tool you mentioned as well and it's about 2.19 jammed into the lands at the ogive.

Dave

At least I'm not alone! Rifle should arrive at Grech today, so fingers crossed it gets looked at soon.

 

[bobdbldr]

At least I'm not alone! Rifle should arrive at Grech today, so fingers crossed it gets looked at soon.

Grech got my rifle in nov.6th 2014, looked at it Jan. 6th 2015, savage sent a new one nov. 2015. Hope you have better luck.

 

[thump_rrr]

I can now give you my story concerning my 10TR which was shooting 30" high at 100y.

Mine was bought through Herron Arms in Jan 2014. Due to personal circumstances the rifle wasn't tested out till early April 2015 when it was found to be shooting 30" high.
The scope needed to be dialed to maximum elevation to get POA to POI.
I tried 3 different scopes which were proven good.
I tried 2 differernt bases
Since I was aware of issues with other 10TR's I brought it on April 17th 2015 to the Savage authorized repair center Alain Depot in Granby Qc.
I left the rifle mounted with a Bushnell Elite 6500 4.5-30x50 on it.
I followed up several weeks later and was told that he confirmed that it was off and would order a replacement barrel.
I would call every month or so to see what was going on and I was told that there were delays in getting an export permit for a replacement barrel.
After several months I went back to pick up the scope so that it could be used on another rifle.
On the 24th of March 2016 nearly 11-1/2 months later I called and was told that the rifle was ready to be picked up.
I went and picked up the rifle, I was in a hurry and it was closing time so I didn't really ask any questions.
The folllowing day I went to the range to confirm that the rifle was shooting normally but that was not the case.
The rifle was still shooting nearly 30" high.
In the stall next to me was CSSA President Steve Torino who asked me what was wrong. I explaind the situation and we went through the testing again re-mounting the scope and I let a couple of other shooters test it with the same results.

At this point I had enough with this rifle.
Steve happened to have the phone number of Terry McCullough Vice President of Savasge Canada and suggested I call him.

The following Friday I called Mr McCullough and he seemed very interrested in my issue.
I raised the concern that I was leery of sending it back in since I may end up waiting another 11 months with no guarantee it would shoot straight.
He asked me to put all the details in an email and he would follow up on it.
The following week I got a call from Ernie Barriage, Sales Manager at Savage telling me that they are attempting to locate a replacement rifle for me.
The following week I receive an email from Andrea Hatton the Inside Sales Administrator with a prepaid shipping label for my rifle.
As of yesterday, less than 1 month since contacting Savage I received my new 10TR.

I will hopefully have time this Sunday to get out and test this rifle.
I am very satisfied in how Savage handled the issue once it came to their attention.
They took my concerns seriously and handled it in a professional manner.

 

[kc34]

Thanks for the update on your Savage 10TR issue.
Please let us know how it shoots once you test it out.
Hopefully you have a good rifle now but it is just sad that you had to wait a year and by chance just run into someone that happen to know the the VP of Savage Canada to actually have it dealt with properly. If you didn't have that fortunate meeting would it even be fixed by now? Who knows?
Let's hope Savage can do better next time when they have a clear warranty issue staring them in the face.

 

[jadam]

I can now give you my story concerning my 10TR which was shooting 30" high at 100y.

Mine was bought through Herron Arms in Jan 2014. Due to personal circumstances the rifle wasn't tested out till early April 2015 when it was found to be shooting 30" high.
The scope needed to be dialed to maximum elevation to get POA to POI.
I tried 3 different scopes which were proven good.
I tried 2 differernt bases
Since I was aware of issues with other 10TR's I brought it on April 17th 2015 to the Savage authorized repair center Alain Depot in Granby Qc.
I left the rifle mounted with a Bushnell Elite 6500 4.5-30x50 on it.
I followed up several weeks later and was told that he confirmed that it was off and would order a replacement barrel.
I would call every month or so to see what was going on and I was told that there were delays in getting an export permit for a replacement barrel.
After several months I went back to pick up the scope so that it could be used on another rifle.
On the 24th of March 2016 nearly 11-1/2 months later I called and was told that the rifle was ready to be picked up.
I went and picked up the rifle, I was in a hurry and it was closing time so I didn't really ask any questions.
The folllowing day I went to the range to confirm that the rifle was shooting normally but that was not the case.
The rifle was still shooting nearly 30" high.
In the stall next to me was CSSA President Steve Torino who asked me what was wrong. I explaind the situation and we went through the testing again re-mounting the scope and I let a couple of other shooters test it with the same results.

At this point I had enough with this rifle.
Steve happened to have the phone number of Terry McCullough Vice President of Savasge Canada and suggested I call him.

The following Friday I called Mr McCullough and he seemed very interrested in my issue.
I raised the concern that I was leery of sending it back in since I may end up waiting another 11 months with no guarantee it would shoot straight.
He asked me to put all the details in an email and he would follow up on it.
The following week I got a call from Ernie Barriage, Sales Manager at Savage telling me that they are attempting to locate a replacement rifle for me.
The following week I receive an email from Andrea Hatton the Inside Sales Administrator with a prepaid shipping label for my rifle.
As of yesterday, less than 1 month since contacting Savage I received my new 10TR.

I will hopefully have time this Sunday to get out and test this rifle.
I am very satisfied in how Savage handled the issue once it came to their attention.
They took my concerns seriously and handled it in a professional manner.

Wow. That's appalling customer service. I'm hopeful that things are getting fixed as a result of your situation making it up to the higher levels of the company. I suppose if I get the feeling I'm headed down the same path I'll PM you for some contact information.

I am hopeful though - when I called Grech they said mine was number 5 to be looked at. Since my barrel seems fine besides the throat a go with a reamer should be all that is required.

Fingers crossed!!

 

[thump_rrr]

Thanks for the update on your Savage 10TR issue.
Please let us know how it shoots once you test it out.
Hopefully you have a good rifle now but it is just sad that you had to wait a year and by chance just run into someone that happen to know the the VP of Savage Canada to actually have it dealt with properly. If you didn't have that fortunate meeting would it even be fixed by now? Who knows?
Let's hope Savage can do better next time when they have a clear warranty issue staring them in the face.

Wow. That's appalling customer service. I'm hopeful that things are getting fixed as a result of your situation making it up to the higher levels of the company. I suppose if I get the feeling I'm headed down the same path I'll PM you for some contact information.

I am hopeful though - when I called Grech they said mine was number 5 to be looked at. Since my barrel seems fine besides the throat a go with a reamer should be all that is required.

Fingers crossed!!

What is appalling is that it came back shooting as bad as it did before.
I cannot blame the gunsmith for the time it took to get a US export permit for a barrel nor can I blame Savage Canada for a rifle that they are unaware of.
All I can say is that from the time I initially contacted Savage Canada to the time I had a new rifle at my door was less than 30 days and for that I am thankful.

For the sake of clarity anyone can call Savage Canada and contact Mr McCullough through the personnel directory.
Its not that I was given the number to his super secret hotline.
The person who wasn't happy when I called their super secret hotline a year or so ago was the Quebec CFO.
He even asked me where I got the phone number from and I told him that it was posted online.
Just the same feel free to PM me if you wish.

 

[bobdbldr]

It seems like the bent barrels must have been a bad batch for sure as whether they shoot 3 feet right or 3 feet high, it is a similar problem. Same story once the head honcho was contacted, although months before I had emailed the secretary and gotten no response along with Ernie Barriage, but when Mcullough was called, he said the same thing, send an email, and withing a month I had a replacement! All I lost was exactly a year without my rifle and $51 to ship the faulty rifle to Grech!