Opinion on New Entry level O/U

Your 870 is a better gun that all of those you listed.
Find a trap club and get some experience before spending money. If you buy cheap, you'll have to buy again. You're better to buy a good used gun than a cheap new one. I started with a Beretta 686, then a Browning BT-100 and now I shoot a Perazzi TM1 and a Perazzi MT6. I bought all of them second hand except the Beretta and I would have saved a lot of money if I had just bought used in the first place. Probably, the best you can do to start on trap is a Browning BT-99, or a Beretta 682 for trap and skeet.

Keep in mind, I'm not criticizing the guns you listed, but they are not designed for trap. They are good for what they are intended for, which is hunting.
 
First off welcome to the sport !!! 2nd I would try a few O/U out first at a local club or from friends who have them. I shoot with a semi auto with changeable chokes and do fairly well but cant hit squat with an O/U no matter how hard I try or how often I try them, long barrel short barrel it doesn't matter. Like most have said here stick to the "B" guns if your going to be shooting a lot (buy once cry once) the guns you listed will just not stand up to volume of shooting you will be doing if you are shooting once a week. Fit is also a major factor so try out lots and lots and lots before you commit and keep in mind because one model from a manufacture fits great don't assume another model will fit the same, stocks vary, rib height varies lots of things can be a little different and throw your fit or line of sight off. I am no expert but I hope this helps.
 
Baikal's are built like tanks and will last forever, very ugly and dont fit alot of people very well, But they are damn hard to break.
I know since iv'e got a couple, The 1st is 30+ years old and has an awful lot of shells through it without issue, The second I just bought last year and already closing in on 10000 rounds with it.
 
Brook said:
I agree with the previous posters, but let me add another reason for the original poster to do so: believe it or not, getting a solid better gun is cheaper than buying a cheap gun. Get a solid deal on a good used Beretta or Browning (i.e., do your marketplace homework), and it will: a) give you better fun for your shooting dollar; b) be more likely to be a gun you might want to shoot for years; C) bring you back 80% of your buying price if you ever do sell it. But if you instead buy any of those other cheaper ones, and they will not only tend make your shooting experience less fun, you'll get less life from the gun and a much lesser resale price (if you can resell it at all), and this ultimately means you'll literally be out of pocket more $$$ over the long run with the cheaper gun.

I've given this advice before, and sometimes people say "But I just can't afford $1500 for a gun." If so, I agree with the other posters that a solid champ like an old Remington 1100 is better than brand new turkey -- but I'm going to add another, unpleasant observation: if you can't afford $1500 for a gun, can you really afford our beloved sport? These days, the cost of the gun is peanuts compared to the cost of keeping it fed with lead and clay, even if you're only going to shoot it once a week. Hope this helps.
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Well said.! I was given similar advice by a well seasoned champion shooter when I was first starting out. I took the advice and never regretted it. There are some good OU come up on the EE now and then. You mentioned wanting to shoot trap and skeet. Those are two different disciplines. A gun like a hammer is a tool. A 16oz. claw hammer can do many things but it is not the best for framing or doing fine finishing work, for that you really need a specific hammer. Same for trap and skeet. Your probably going to end up on a sporting clay field sooner or later as well. I would hold off for a bit until you have more experience under your belt in trap, skeet and sporting clays as to which discipline you like best. Then you can purchase a gun more geared toward that discipline.
The "B" guns are good. But don't over look a Win.101 or a Ruger Red Label if one comes your way in the right configuration. If you where say specifically going to shoot skeet then you could get away with a fixed choke gun choked S&S. In Sporting Clays IC will do almost everything most of the time but there are times when the versatility of another choke choice would be desirable, so a gun with screw in chokes would be an asset. Trap, a fixed choke in full will do it all.

Concerning the OU guns you mentioned don't give any of them a second look. You get what you pay for in OU's. Those guns are fine for shooting the odd partridge. But they will not take the rounds your thinking of putting through one year after year. And like mentioned you won't get much for one if you want to trade up and you will get next to zip if it's worn and needs repairs as those repairs will be worth far more than the gun.

Hope this helps.
 
Well - If the OP cant save up enough allowance to get a B gun, then the Baikal would be the way to go. Unfortunately, the current model available is the double trigger model. With the current Russian embargo, getting a single trigger model, particularly a ported sporting model would be challenging.
 
I've shot a few sessions recreationally with a Condor before I knew any better, and ended up with a CZ Redhead which was a big improvement in weight and balance.
 
Does anyone have any feedback on the new Turkish Churchill models that are coming in? They look awfully good at the 1000 price point.
 
Canadian eh! said:
Does anyone have any feedback on the new Turkish Churchill models that are coming in? They look awfully good at the 1000 price point.
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A couple of guys in our club have them and shoot them well. As to durability, they haven't had them long enough to really give a true indication as to how they will handle the number of shots they will have through them when shooting clays.
 
If you do choose to wait and look at a better gun. Make sure you take your time. Beretta, browning and winchester all fit differently for different people so id shoot what you have save up and take your time and buy the gun you will be happy with for a long time.
 
There is really no such thing as an entry level O/U in my opinion. You either get cheap junk or good quality. The only thing that puts a quality built O/U higher in price is design chatacteristics(action and mechanicals) and the amount of lipstick applied! Gold inlays, engraving, fancy burled wood etc do not make a better quality gun, they just add show. My thoughts are save up a bit more $$ and buy a decent quality gun. Stay away from the bargain priced stuff. There is a reason its that price!!
 
Just reading on a Sunday and I can't help but say this to a new shooter. You don't need a 3000.00 or 4000.00 gun to
Enjoy this sport!!!!!!!!!!
There are a lot of gun snobs about��
Most shot guns ( that I have shouldered in stores) do not fit right and older used B guns will not have adjustable stocks.
There is no sense to having a pretty gun that does not fit.
I just bought a stoger condor that just happened to fit perfect. If you spend 700.00 and get into it enough to know you love it then why not upgrade? 700.00 is nothing in this game unfortunately.
Just my thoughts
 
The cheapest o/u I would personally buy is a cz redhead...but beware, once you get into o/u's you will always want something better and you won't be truly happy until you get a B gun or something of similar quality (usually $1500 and up new). The cheap guns also become worthless in the used market.

With that said, the fit is the most important key to shooting so look for something that fits you best and you may as well go big or go home from the beginning and maybe look for a quality gun used as it will retain it's value the best of any other option. (ex: buy $1200 gun, use it, sell for close to that once you had enough of it- money well spent)
 
czscotia said:
There are a lot of gun snobs about��
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Yes there are and typically they are the ones who are a) too cheap to buy a better quality gun or b) simply can't afford to buy a better quality gun so they go around calling the people GUN SNOBS, who a) can either afford a better quality gun or b) have saved longer to buy a better quality gun or c) have been down the lesser gun road and moved into a better quality gun. The true GUN SNOB is the latter person calling others gun snobs.

And if you think $3000 - $4000 is big bucks for a clay target gun you have not spent much time in the clay target games. That is pretty much going rate for any entry level QUALITY target gun today!
 
One other consideration is the cost of shooting. A round of skeet or trap can run you $12 to 15 or so, depending on the club an if you reload.

If you want to be a bit better than a duffer, you will need to shoot at least 5 to 10 rounds of skeet per week as a minimum. To get any good (shooting, say, 20 to 22 out of 25 - which is mediocre) then you will likely have to shoot more. So, at 10 rounds per week at 13 per round, you are looking at $130 per week or $6,500 per year plus club fees and travel. When looked at this way, you need to evaluate your commitment level and the price of the gun.

The trouble with going with a really cheap gun is that it will break sooner than you expect. Many quality B guns will do 100,000 rounds with minimal gunsmithing. Also, your tastes will change if you get into it and as you skill level improves.

A used B gun (over/under) is your best bet. The sweet spot for serious beginners is around $1,200 to $2000 after trying for gun fit.
 
I was new to the sport, I bought a brand new baikal over/under for $399 and honestly, every time I pull the trigger it goes bang. Personally I don't concern myself too much with the elitists' "you gotta pay to play" attitude. You are crudely sending a bunch of small lead balls down a smooth barrel... it's not a complicated technology and I can't see how you have to spend a minimum of $1500 to do that. The break action is also super simple with very few moving parts so very few things not work right (unlike a semiauto/pump/lever etc).

My shotgun has double triggers, I haven't used it to shoot skeet yet and I can imagine it being a bit of a hindrance versus a single trigger, but for sporting clays and for hunting , I like the ability to instantly select which barrel to shoot out of (I run IC choke in one and M choke in the other).
 
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