The 450 Ruger Improved Lives.............

c-fbmi said:
Well Cam, I bought a donor rifle a couple years ago and then ordered and paid for the reamer and found 500 or so usable cases for it............so the only thing lacking was the initiative to "get 'er done". It would seem I've been a couple years finding that, however now it's a reality and with a little tweaking it should be a viable and useful rifle and cartridge combo. I am finding "initiative" a lot more difficult to muster up as I finish out my 61st year on this planet.......I no longer go back to the shop after dinner and whip out a couple more rifles like I used to.
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The longer we stay above the grass the more difficult it becomes to muster that initiative but it still beats the alternative. My mustering hurdle at present is patience. Patience in waiting for corrective cataract surgery to help me see game and front sights. A friend of mine has a slightly more positive outlook and says "the only thing he notices about getting older is hunting season is coming quicker and quicker all the time".
 
b_s.........negative on that, the 45-110 is on a 2 7/8" case and I have never compared case capacities. The reason I used this load for fireforming is I figured the case capacity was approximately close and Lyman showed the pressure at about 27K psi, so even if capacities were not similar I knew I wouldn't get more than about 35K psi, plenty to form brass and not stress things. Or if it were the other way (which I doubted it would be at 2.7") I'd still get more than 20K psi and the same result would be achieved. I figure that the 2 7/8" case should be right there with the Lott and that is where I figured this case should be, so capacities should be very similar. I knew I wouldn't be off by much.
 
OK, so I took the 450 up to the shop and knocked about .063" off the back end of the barrel and the shoulder and brought the sights up to top dead center, effectively shortening the chamber by roughly .063"..........now to make some more brass and try 'er out again. This brings this case back to the same ball park at least as the Ruger case and will likely now fit into a Ruger action. After I make the dies for this cartridge I will be able to reuse all the cases I have formed so far, but I'll need dies to push the shoulder back the .065" to headspace in the new shorter chamber. Might make up some fireform loads this aft and see what the new case looks like..............I'll get back to ya later..........
 
So I fireformed 3 cases (it's already dark, the neighbors may get the wrong impression) and checked capacity. It's still 3-4% greater than the 458 Lott........it now holds 106.2 grns of Win 748 and the finished case measures 2.625" However they still will not fit the Ruger magazine with 510 gn W-W softs, but they appear to me extra long from the cannelure to the end of the nose. I suspect these are designed exclusively for the 458 Win to maximize powder capacity and use the longer Winchester magazine. Does any one have any Horn 500 gn 458 softs that could measure from the front edge of the cannelure to the end of the nose? My .470 500 gn are 1/4" shorter from the cannelure to the end of the nose, with much more bullet in the case behind the cannelure.
 
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c-fbmi said:
Can anybody help me out with the measurement from the front of the cannelure to the nose of a 500 gn Hornady soft..........anybody? Or maybe a Woodleigh 500 gn........
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Hornady 500gr RN: 21mm

Woodleigh 500gr PP: 20mm

500gr_zps1ydornyn.jpg
 
c-fbmi said:
Can anybody help me out with the measurement from the front of the cannelure to the nose of a 500 gn Hornady soft..........anybody? Or maybe a Woodleigh 500 gn........
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I've got both styles of the .458/500s soft points that Hornady makes, and an old box of Woodleighs that I think came from you. I`ll get some measurements for you later today. I`ve got some Matrix, but they don`t have cannelures, and a box of 500 gr A-Frame`s that I saving for a special occasion, if you want measurements for them as well.
 
Hornady .458/500 gr RN - .802"
Hornady .458/500 gr DGX - .626"

Woodleigh .458/500 RN - .820"

Swift A Frame - .780"

Matrix -
Marshall doesn't cannelure his bullets, but I put my own on with a Corbin hand tool. I have two types of his bullets in .458/500, the flat nose is 1.228" and the tapered nose is 1.373". The front edge of the cannelure is .481" from the base.
 
c-fbmi said:
What would you like to see photos of Johnn?
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Fair question. Something along the lines of the donor rifle prior to starting, The chambering reamer being run in. Any aspect of action alterations. Stock work and the finished product. I'm somewhat intrigued with the concept of your project and what you're doing far surpasses my grade 12 machine shop skills.;)Even though one of the areas of responsibility I had prior to retirement was as the supervisor of the machine shop in the mill I was employed at. In addition, wanting to see a little representation of the process stems from my interest in firearms.
 
Hey Johnn..........we're too late for photos of any of the conversion..........it's done. The exterior of the rifle is identical to what it was before (see first post for photos). Really only thing left is case forming (already posted pics of this) and load testing for velocity and accuracy. I tend not to take photos when I'm chambering as I'm up to my elbows in cutting oil and there really ain't much to see. Besides I don't think all that oil would be good for my camera, and I don't have water in the shop, so I can't wash up before taking photos. What you need to do is come on down and see the whole process in person.......anytime you like. Then you can photograph the whole process and put it all in a thread, for anyone who wishes to see. But if you do that, we'll start from scratch and show the whole process from a blank barrel and bare action.......threading, chambering, headspacing, turning and cutting the barrel and finally screwing on to the action and test firing it. Some on here may be interested.
 
c-fbmi said:
Hey Johnn..........we're too late for photos of any of the conversion..........it's done. The exterior of the rifle is identical to what it was before (see first post for photos). Really only thing left is case forming (already posted pics of this) and load testing for velocity and accuracy. I tend not to take photos when I'm chambering as I'm up to my elbows in cutting oil and there really ain't much to see. Besides I don't think all that oil would be good for my camera, and I don't have water in the shop, so I can't wash up before taking photos. What you need to do is come on down and see the whole process in person.......anytime you like. Then you can photograph the whole process and put it all in a thread, for anyone who wishes to see. But if you do that, we'll start from scratch and show the whole process from a blank barrel and bare action.......threading, chambering, headspacing, turning and cutting the barrel and finally screwing on to the action and test firing it. Some on here may be interested.
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Sounds like a plan, but I have a cataract issue that has to be addressed first. :(The eye issue has pretty well closed down my hunting for this year, that :rolleyes: along with the locked logging road gates. When the cataracts are delt with, I do have a plan for a little access for local Deer hunting. A trailer for use behind my Mt. bike which should partially address the gate 'problem'.
 
Thanks for the bullet measurements guys, I really appreciate it. I'm going to do the comparison shortly to see which 500 grnrs will work in the Ruger action. I'm within a few thou of the Ruger case now and taking my case back another .030" to match the Ruger case length isn't going to make it fit, with the W-W 510 gn softs I have now. The other way to do this is to use a powder slow enough that the load is heavily compressed, then one doesn't have to worry about recoil set back of the bullet.
Anyway I'll do some measuring and decide which bullet is going to work best in the shorter Ruger action. For now, using the Rem 700 I don't have any COAL issues so my test loads will be crimped into the cannelure of the W-W 510s
 
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Haven't done any more work with this rifle but I was thumbing through the Brownells catalogue the other day and came across a nicely done banded front sight. I really like it so I thought I might have to order one for this rifle. It has the interchangeable sight inserts with different beads and heights. Looks like it might be just a sweetheart for this big thumper. I might have to cut the barrel back to 22"s as well, 24" on a DG gun is somewhat unwieldy, I think 21 or 22" might be a whole lot handier. I sincerely doubt the difference in ballistics will be significant enough to even notice with a cartridge with an expansion ratio like this one has.

Too many things on the go again, need to finish some up.............Next up is a 416-350 RM or 416 WSM on a short 700 Rem action that I shall lengthen 1/4". I might then have to try my hand at a full stock to nestle it in with a 19" barrel and banded front sight......HHHHMMMMMMM
 
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Yep 'Looky, the Penguin will actually happen before the short 416, cause I already have a reamer for that one so I guess it's up next...........I already have the barrel off the action for that one and she's ready for a new one..........have everything I need, so where did I put that initiative again?
Doing the Penguin means I have to turn a barrel from a rifled blank, and I hate turning barrels...........but..........
 
c-fbmi said:
I do not remove the belt, as the fireforming blows the brass out to match the dia of the belt and the belt keeps the case centered in the chamber for fireforming.
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Hey mate, so whats behind a Belt on a Cartridges case? I don't understand how the forming 'blows' the Brass out to match the diameter of the belt? without it cracking or whatever..
keen to know though
thanks
wl
 
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