RCMP Pistol Trials
- Thread starter RPIcka
- Start date
We have CBS agents that belong to our club and they are useing Sigs from what I have been told . their pistols are DOA also and the trigger pull is either set at 16 or 18 lbs. and yes I heard it from one of them . what I don't get is why would they set the poundage so high . I watched one of them shoot one day and dam was she ever good - great groups . but it would take alot of trigger time and tons of rounds to get that good with such a heavy trigger pull.
what I don't understand is these people - LEO officers are trusted to carry a firearm on the job to defend themselves and the public but they are'nt trusted enough to carry a pistol with a decient trigger pull . the first rule I instill in someone I am teaching to shoot is keep your finger out of the trigger guard till your ready to shoot. heck I'm not saying give them hair triggers on their issue pistols but from what I have learn't over the years is a nice trigger pull equates to hitting your target without undue stress. NO ??
if I was the one responsible to say what the RCMP were to carry and they were only allowed to have a 9mm I would have done my best to have them issued the CZ 75 or 85 . it has a nice double action trigger pull and single there after. I guess I would trust them more than their superiours
what I don't understand is these people - LEO officers are trusted to carry a firearm on the job to defend themselves and the public but they are'nt trusted enough to carry a pistol with a decient trigger pull . the first rule I instill in someone I am teaching to shoot is keep your finger out of the trigger guard till your ready to shoot. heck I'm not saying give them hair triggers on their issue pistols but from what I have learn't over the years is a nice trigger pull equates to hitting your target without undue stress. NO ??
if I was the one responsible to say what the RCMP were to carry and they were only allowed to have a 9mm I would have done my best to have them issued the CZ 75 or 85 . it has a nice double action trigger pull and single there after. I guess I would trust them more than their superiours
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CBSA agents carry the Beretta PX Storm in DA only.
And I agree about the heavy trigger pull argument.
I would prefer if manufacturers can equip all service guns with LEM triggers that are like a DA pull, heavier than SA but lighter than a traditional DA. 7-8lbs should be about right. Night sights or FO sights. The mag disconnect option, I'll leave to individual departments to figure out.
And I agree about the heavy trigger pull argument.
I would prefer if manufacturers can equip all service guns with LEM triggers that are like a DA pull, heavier than SA but lighter than a traditional DA. 7-8lbs should be about right. Night sights or FO sights. The mag disconnect option, I'll leave to individual departments to figure out.
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You hit the nail on the head RPIcka.
A friend of mine who instructs at PRTC was dealing with a member whose gun had malfunctioned and was struggling with it. My friend said "Your firearm is out of battery" The guy was totally confused and replied "My gun doesn't run on batteries, does it?!"
The thing is, there is always going to be cops who only carry a gun because they have to and will only do the minimum amount of training on it. So in that sense a heavier pull makes sense in stressful situations, that way the shot is more intentional.
When an officer intends to pull the trigger, the weight of the pull isn't relevant.
When they put their finger on the trigger and don't intend to shoot, that's when the trigger weight is very relevant.
As others have stated, the lack of training in law enforcement is a problem right across the board in all departments. Qualifications are far too easy, but the cost of training to a higher standard is MASSIVE.
CBSA uses the old RCMP course of fire, which is the most difficult for front line officers in the country. The RCMP has since modified theirs and it is a lot easier.
The Ontario Provincial course of fire is an absolute joke...
When they put their finger on the trigger and don't intend to shoot, that's when the trigger weight is very relevant.
As others have stated, the lack of training in law enforcement is a problem right across the board in all departments. Qualifications are far too easy, but the cost of training to a higher standard is MASSIVE.
CBSA uses the old RCMP course of fire, which is the most difficult for front line officers in the country. The RCMP has since modified theirs and it is a lot easier.
The Ontario Provincial course of fire is an absolute joke...
Interesting thread. As is typical of many organizations that need to train large groups, they seek hardware solutions to softwear problems. Trigger pull and weight was a big concern for agencies when the semi auto transition was done in the mid 90's as everyone was trained on revolvers. The 5946, Beretta 96D, and other DAO pistols were marketed as having triggers similar to revolvers, thus making the transition 'easier', and peceivably lowering liability. What they didn't think about is the liability caused by having a pistol that is more difficult to shoot well.
My agency issued Glock 22's with the NY1 trigger because that's what the police package was back then. We recently replaced our aging .40's with G17's. I explained to the bosses that trigger weight is a training issue, and liability is best addressed by putting the rounds where they need to go. Easy sell, and now we have stock triggers.
As for lights, the G22's (Gen3) did have issues with lights and function. Some of this was improved with new mag springs, but issues still persisted. The Gen4 guns eliminated the problems in my experience. As for pointing at whatever you need to illuminate, that's once again a training issue, and not a problem if your policy, procedures, and training address it.
The 5946 is a perfectly serviceable handgun, and I would carry one with confidence if that's what I was given. Smith, SIG, Glock, Ruger, auto, or revolver... Train with what you have and maintain it. It's the fight in the dog
My agency issued Glock 22's with the NY1 trigger because that's what the police package was back then. We recently replaced our aging .40's with G17's. I explained to the bosses that trigger weight is a training issue, and liability is best addressed by putting the rounds where they need to go. Easy sell, and now we have stock triggers.
As for lights, the G22's (Gen3) did have issues with lights and function. Some of this was improved with new mag springs, but issues still persisted. The Gen4 guns eliminated the problems in my experience. As for pointing at whatever you need to illuminate, that's once again a training issue, and not a problem if your policy, procedures, and training address it.
The 5946 is a perfectly serviceable handgun, and I would carry one with confidence if that's what I was given. Smith, SIG, Glock, Ruger, auto, or revolver... Train with what you have and maintain it. It's the fight in the dog
RCMP as well as all law enforcement really .... are expected to have a very broad skill set and most officers might only have a very general experience in firearms. They do a lot of different enforcement activities and some of those skills will be used more often. I have had a few dates with a couple officers and they knew about their duty pistol and shotgun and next to nothing about other firearms and nothing about the differences in calibers etc. They shot a couple times of year and that's about it and they thought a patrol carbine is somehow different from an ar15. Of course, other officers have more expertise in firearms or are hunters, target shooters, etc. They did seem eager to know more, so it likely comes down to funds spent on training too.
But for those officers with considerable knowledge; I'm definitely interested in their experiences and opinions.
Could the heavier trigger also be seen as a safety measure for holstering the gun as well as for shooting?
I have nothing but love for my 5946. Been shooting 240's every year for nearly a decade and a half. I've never had troubles with the pull weight/quality...I know my '#####' very well and we spend a lot of quality time together.
I believe the 'girl guns' that were referred to earlier would be a 3946 or similar?? They run with a smaller single stack mag that I believe are 8 rounders iirc. Cute little things but not a good fit for my monster hands...and the mags are of no use to me either lol.
EDIT- wow, the word itch with a b gets censored out?? What has the world become lol
I believe the 'girl guns' that were referred to earlier would be a 3946 or similar?? They run with a smaller single stack mag that I believe are 8 rounders iirc. Cute little things but not a good fit for my monster hands...and the mags are of no use to me either lol.
EDIT- wow, the word itch with a b gets censored out?? What has the world become lol
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