the original black & green pump shotguns - Winchester 1897 -&- Ithaca M37
- Thread starter madashell
- Start date
http://s42.photobucket.com/user/crosmansniper/media/group004.jpg.html
^^^
Quite the family, I'd like to know if the nonstandard mag tubes are factory custom or aftermarket?
BTW I contacted Ithaca to inquire about a custom build of my own, hope to hear from them tomorrow.
^^^
Quite the family, I'd like to know if the nonstandard mag tubes are factory custom or aftermarket?
BTW I contacted Ithaca to inquire about a custom build of my own, hope to hear from them tomorrow.
Have not investigated what was/is available for M37 mag tube upgrades. Indeed, that's a great picture. Pretty sure I've seen that before.
Wonder if any ask Ithaca about building on an original 2 3/4" sized receiver....
Be interesting to see what they say 870P, and what their plan is for getting it up to Canada. Hopefully they are actively looking for a distributor up here.
Wonder if any ask Ithaca about building on an original 2 3/4" sized receiver....
Be interesting to see what they say 870P, and what their plan is for getting it up to Canada. Hopefully they are actively looking for a distributor up here.
I seriously doubt they'd even consider a 2.75" reciever.
IMO a 1/4 inch more reciever length isn't a big deal aside from making it easier to shove 2.75" shells in the loading port.
Anyway Prophet River is the Canadian distributor.
Getting a plain old 37 Defense should be no problem, the question is whether I can get some custom work done (choke tubes at the least) and Kek willing, if I can get it with a 14" barrel.
I believe the Defense models are still offered with the "Permaguard" nitride finish some any barrel work would probably have to be done beforehand.
IMO a 1/4 inch more reciever length isn't a big deal aside from making it easier to shove 2.75" shells in the loading port.
Anyway Prophet River is the Canadian distributor.
Getting a plain old 37 Defense should be no problem, the question is whether I can get some custom work done (choke tubes at the least) and Kek willing, if I can get it with a 14" barrel.
I believe the Defense models are still offered with the "Permaguard" nitride finish some any barrel work would probably have to be done beforehand.
I have a '97 takedown... 1903 production... And while I do love it, I wouldn't use it as a "go to" gun for competition or tactical purposes. It has a few design quirks.
The way the bolt comes back out of the receiver when cycling requires a special level of care and attention, otherwise you'll lose some skin off your thumb or the back of the web of your hand.
Single action bar. Work that thing hard and it's easy to torque it out of speck.
Slam Fire. Yah, slam fire is fun. But there's good reasons why modern shotguns don't do this. When you're working it fast, again, you REALLY need to be paying attention, otherwise a round goes off as soon as you cycle the action (non-optimal, to put it mildly). The '37 does this too. Again, while fun, in practical use, it falls into the category of "bad idea."
The extractor is fiddly and can get out of line quickly, especially in heavy use.
A well made modern Turkish gun can be had for less money, will be more reliable, has better ergonomics (let the flame wars begin over that last statement).
The way the bolt comes back out of the receiver when cycling requires a special level of care and attention, otherwise you'll lose some skin off your thumb or the back of the web of your hand.
Single action bar. Work that thing hard and it's easy to torque it out of speck.
Slam Fire. Yah, slam fire is fun. But there's good reasons why modern shotguns don't do this. When you're working it fast, again, you REALLY need to be paying attention, otherwise a round goes off as soon as you cycle the action (non-optimal, to put it mildly). The '37 does this too. Again, while fun, in practical use, it falls into the category of "bad idea."
The extractor is fiddly and can get out of line quickly, especially in heavy use.
A well made modern Turkish gun can be had for less money, will be more reliable, has better ergonomics (let the flame wars begin over that last statement).
I have both an M97 trench gun and an M12 trench gun (both early 40s production). Love them both, as Grelmar said slamfire is fun with both but the 97 you have to be careful your hand doesn't slip/shift or the action will catch it. The 97 is currently jammed really badly, action is 1/2 way back and I cracked the stupid bakelite butt plate when I tried to use a mallet and dowel on the forestock to try and get it loose. Time for a trip to the gunsmith before I break it anymore.
I splurged and just ordered the Inland (Ithaca) M37 Trench through an importer. Probably crazy, but I've not bought anything in months, so....
Prior to this I got a Featherlight through PR, though too late in the season to take it out. I need to order some extended tubes for it. I think they use Invector Plus, but just need confirmation from Ithaca on that.
I've the Norc 1897 riot gun, and it's a hoot. If Canada Ammo comes through on the trench model, I'll have to get one. With a full choke I do decently at trap, and get some looks lol.
Prior to this I got a Featherlight through PR, though too late in the season to take it out. I need to order some extended tubes for it. I think they use Invector Plus, but just need confirmation from Ithaca on that.
I've the Norc 1897 riot gun, and it's a hoot. If Canada Ammo comes through on the trench model, I'll have to get one. With a full choke I do decently at trap, and get some looks lol.
I rather like slam fire, granted I've never used it on a 97, but its awesome on a 37, allowing you to easily get semiautomatic cycle speed without semiautomatic issues.
I've heard accounts out of Vietnam where it was used saying things like "you could hit them three times before they'd even have a chance to fall down."
I've never had any kind of safety issue, although I understand there were some instances back in the day were some cop closed the action with his finger on the trigger while pointing at his partner, doh!
It comes down to running things fast and hard, and under duress, when your decision making process and fine motor skills might not (won't be) be at their best.
Not saying that my '97 is for sale... It's in the permanent collection. But for a tactical shotgun, there are better options out now. Real '97s aren't getting cheaper, and the knockoffs aren't a screaming deal either.
I do want to add a heavy barrel '37 to the collection some day. But again, mostly for shiznits and giggles.
A good 870 or 590 can be got, second hand, for less money. They're better platforms, easier to maintain, so many aftermarket accessories, mods, etc. for them... Hard to beat that.
Not saying that my '97 is for sale... It's in the permanent collection. But for a tactical shotgun, there are better options out now. Real '97s aren't getting cheaper, and the knockoffs aren't a screaming deal either.
I do want to add a heavy barrel '37 to the collection some day. But again, mostly for shiznits and giggles.
A good 870 or 590 can be got, second hand, for less money. They're better platforms, easier to maintain, so many aftermarket accessories, mods, etc. for them... Hard to beat that.
Cycling the action is more of a gross motor skill IMO, and certainly its easier to hold the trigger down and work it rather than the fine dance that's required to get really high speed out a pump with an interrupter.
Anyway, I certainly agree the 870 and 590 series are better from a logistical standpoint, but they are not on the same level as shooting instruments.
What I was getting at is that slam firing is an easy thing to frick up under pressure. The US military and numerous police agencies had issues with ND's over the years. Individual users could make them sing, for sure, but on an institutional level, accidents accumulated.
I kinda enjoy taking the gun out and dumping the tube slam firing away.
One of the best things about it, though, is the takedown. Man, it's easy to store in a compact manner, or slip into a backpack. I wish that the 870 had a takedown version as slick.
Well, firearms training and techniques were rather lacking in those days, for example;
I hear you on the take down capability though, would be a good thing to have, at the very least they should offer a quick detach buttstock like on the Remington MCS.
The takedown design on the 97 is very interesting. Wonder what the legalities are of leaving the mag tube loaded while taken apart ?
Indeed, a takedown 870 would be the ultimate.
I've thought about figuring out a way to at least make the mag tube screw-in on an 870. Somewhat takedown .
I've just heard back from Ithaca, they quoted me something like $1150 CDN for a removable barrel HD model with wood furniture and reduced LOP stock, fair enough, but they don't seem to want to offer it with removable chokes or any kind of barrel work.
That's kind of a deal killer for me as a cylinder bore shotgun makes for expensive practice and is rather limited in usefulness.
Normally I'd just arrange to have it sent off to someone like Tac Ord before I even receive it, but these puppies are nitrided and I'm pretty sure any machine work after the fact is not an option.
That's kind of a deal killer for me as a cylinder bore shotgun makes for expensive practice and is rather limited in usefulness.
Normally I'd just arrange to have it sent off to someone like Tac Ord before I even receive it, but these puppies are nitrided and I'm pretty sure any machine work after the fact is not an option.
Apparently its because they don't want to take their barrel machine out of service just to reprogram it to thread one barrel.
Alrighty, I can understand that, but I pointed out that since they're offering a gun at a premium price point, shared with the likes of the STF-12 and "tuner" 870s, they might want to consider it as a regular option in the future.
They also mentioned that they still have some 14" AOWs in stock, but now I'm waiting to seeing if those could be exported, with a buttstock of course.
