Glock Blocked: SIG P320 Remains New US Army Pistol As GAO Rejects Glock Claim

polaris said:
And YOU know all that for sure, because......
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Well here's a link to a forum(yes a forum) where someone mentions Larry Vickers who says the pistol failed miserably. Apparently LAV posted that on social media. I've also heard from other reputable sources that what LAV posted is correct in that the 320 had issues and failed the testing, even though the RFP was practically custom tailored for the 320 to win.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?23557-Sig-P320-quot-failed-FBI-test-miserably-quot

Big green needs a lot of pistols and likes them cheap. The 320 does an alright job and it was cheap, rumoured at $207 per gun. Keep in mind the MHS contract was for guns, magazines, parts, holsters, and ammo...
 
GreenBob said:
That's not what U.S military thinks... Sorry I couldn't resist.
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You do know that everyone in the US SOCOM community is using Glock 19's? You know, the very switched on professional soldiers. Read my post above, big green likes to save dollars and get a good deal. They have rarely selected the best product without first looking at cost. The Beretta is a fine example of a poor choice that won out due to cost and dirty dealings.
 
I think the modularity of the 320 played a huge part in it's selection - the various different models of pistols (full size, medium and small pistols, and various frame and grip combinations) in use can be replaced with a smaller number of serialized chassis and the necessary parts simply hung on them, rather than having 10,000 spare full sized guns and a shortage of smaller guns, and listening to 'none gun' people complain about grip size, trigger reach, etc, they can be switched around from one role to another. The cost savings in the ability to do this are larger than most people would believe. Especially in something as relatively unimportant as a pistol. Big Army pretty much doesn't know or care about the existence of pistols - they're pretty much irrelevant their environment. Radios are much more important and relevant, would you rather defend yourself with a pistol, or a direct line to an Apache gunship?
 
You know the members can chose what they want to use, right?

Both P226 and G19 are mid 1980 designed and have been used and battle tested in every part of the globe. Both are accurate, simple and reliable. Glocks are lighter and slightly smaller than the all metal P226s, making them a bit more attractive when you have to carry a lot of stuff/gear.

I don't get why people get emotionally invested in this debate. Who give the flying #### what pistol does US SOCOM community use? I know I don't.

At the end of the day... it is a tool.

Shoot whatever feels better in your hand brah (imho).





Kidd X said:
You do know that everyone in the US SOCOM community is using Glock 19's? You know, the very switched on professional soldiers. Read my post above, big green likes to save dollars and get a good deal. They have rarely selected the best product without first looking at cost. The Beretta is a fine example of a poor choice that won out due to cost and dirty dealings.
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Oh yeah... Glocks suck!

GlockPerfection.jpg


:stirthepot2:
 
GreenBob said:
I don't get why people get emotionally invested in this debate. Who give the flying #### what pistol does US SOCOM community use? I know I don't.

At the end of the day... it is a tool.

Shoot whatever feels better in your hand brah (imho).
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This is wise. Most quality guns are more accurate than the shooter and reliable. If it works for you that's great!!! Other people may prefer other platforms. Personally I find shooting a number of different pistols helps to focus on fundamentals. But, I do have my favourites!!!
 
I believe calibre conversions were one of the things that the army was looking for ..... I believe there have been suggestions here and there that they are interested in a move to .40 cal. The only Glock calibre conversions that I am aware of are aftermarket. This gun would allow them to easily move to another calibre for a single mission purpose or even a permanent move entirely at a later date.

It remains to be seen what the reliability of the sig will be ..... an unscientific and only glancing view at YouTube shows some light primer strikes and minor failures here and there. Maybe a small sample of guns or a break in period? Time will tell.

I believe the Americans also wanted a manual safety that isn't currently on the civilian models, but will be on the military models.

Then again, I read some articles about why the British replaced the Hi-power with the Glock because it had no manual safety. I'm not sure why they have different approaches to the safety. Maybe more Americans soldiers get the opportunity to carry a pistol and some of them may have less training?
 
Agreed. Every manufacture has had issues with their new designs or updates including glock and we can appreciate or dislike all their strengths and weaknesses.

I am so tired of the rants and people that seem to be experts because they googled and heard this and that while thinking one design can only be the best (low bore axis folks talking to you), time to grow up and realize to each their own, I personally prefer my 320 over my 17 but hey I enjoy both and say why choose just one.

All these manufactures just need to move forward and stop this isnt fair crap....

Rant over
 
The Army would still end up with the same thing either way, under-trained soldiers who can't shoot for ####.


It doesn't really matter because the real trigger pullers who get the important #### done don't fall under the usual procurement system, they get to carry whichever handgun they prefer, and they choose Glocks.




Also, you have to remember that this is the same Army that basically fielded Hello Kitty ACU uniforms, and chose to completely ignore Crye's established and proven camo pattern and manufacturing capabilities when they FINALLY decided to change the hello kitty uniforms.

The Army is a political entity, not a thinking entity.

City Boy said:
I believe calibre conversions were one of the things that the army was looking for ..... I believe there have been suggestions here and there that they are interested in a move to .40 cal.
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LOL

9mm NATO... ... NATO
 
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Kidd X said:
Like what? Everyone and their dog now offers a Glock wannabe pistol, like the SIG 320 that "won" the contract.



The 320 is an ok pistol but it failed durability tests when the FBI was trialing pistols. For another Glock wannabe it still isn't on par. Selecting a pistol on price alone is plain stupid and it's what got SIG the contract.



Absolutely correct. As is often the case with gov contracts some hands were greased or careers advanced at the expense of honest trials.
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You mean human lives.
 
wayupnorth said:
i like watching when the Glock fan-boys get their backs up.
its entertainment at its finest!

am i the only one that thinks Kidd X sounds a lot like TDC?

kinda missing his Glock ramblings.
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Nope, the basement kid lives in infamy and in the form of KIDX.

It is odd to hear the Glock crowd whine about losing a contract on price alone. How do they think Glock secured their LEO market? By having a better product OR by selling their guns to LEO Departments for next to nothing. They could because their guns cost so little to manufacture.

To say the 320 is a copy of the Glock is like saying a Chev is just a copy of a Ford. Really just silly. The Glock 17 is an old design that has gone through four iterations and still is the easiest gun to limp wrist on the planet due to it's heavy slide.

Take Care

Bob
 
Kidd X said:
Like what? Everyone and their dog now offers a HK VP70 wannabe pistol, like the SIG 320 that "won" the contract.
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If we are going to play the 'original polymer striker fired' game, we might as well take it back to the original. Glock was just a copy. They should have chosen the HK VP70 as their new pistol.

Edit: I will add, what does the Glock offer over the VP70 that makes it oh so great?
 
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ianfroese said:
If we are going to play the 'original polymer striker fired' game, we might as well take it back to the original. Glock was just a copy. They should have chosen the HK VP70 as their new pistol.
Edit: I will add, what does the Glock offer over the VP70 that makes it oh so great?
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That's because Glock made a porcelain gun (Glock 7 to be specific) that doesn't show up on airport X-ray machines and it costs more than what you make in a month. That's thinking outside the box. Who doesn't like holding onto a 2x4 shaped grip and squeezing a mushy trigger that happens to have an uncomfortable straight edged safety bar in it for 500rnds? Obviously the design is perfect and does not need to be updated.

Jokes aside, I think a crisp/comfortable trigger is a luxury feature for a duty pistol if it came down to cost cutting.
 
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