**TYPE 81 7.62X39 SERVICE RIFLE** ~Now on the way~ -Last chance!

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So if I bought a ticket on line to a Habs game two weeks beforehand and YOU bought one the the night of the game by your thinking I should be in front of YOU in the line because I got my ticket before you? So I was at the mall to see a movie and I got my Star Wars ticket weeks before and you got one that day with your thinking I should be waaaaaay in front of YOU in line. So I bought a T81.................? PATHETIC!
 
johnny the boy said:
So if I bought a ticket on line to a Habs game two weeks beforehand and YOU bought one the the night of the game by your thinking I should be in front of YOU in the line because I got my ticket before you? So I was at the mall to see a movie and I got my Star Wars ticket weeks before and you got one that day with your thinking I should be waaaaaay in front of YOU in line. So I bought a T81.................? PATHETIC!
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That is a very stupid example. You are still watching the game/movie on the SAME night. Not 2-3 weeks later.
 
Claven2 said:
If you can;t understand why it's not a good idea for TI to service their most loyal customers in a logical shipping order, then we get it - you are more tolerant than most consumers and you loyalty to TI is unshakeable. Great. I'm glad TI has a foundation that starts with you.

Most consumers are more objective in where they prefer to shop, and a fair and transparent shipping order would have satisfied a larger swah of their customer base and kept more of them interested in participating in future pre-orders. If that doesn't match your view of the world, great, but MANY MANY MANY other people feel differently and are entitled to say so without you forcing your (apparently minority) views on them.

The customer is always right, my friend.
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This thread actually went 30 posts of informative comments and pictures until someone decided they had to put somebody else in their place. Thank you to those who are posting pics and range results, etc... It was nice to check for updates and find something worth reading.
Happy Thursday.
 
Claven2 said:
If you can;t understand why it's not a good idea for TI to service their most loyal customers in a logical shipping order, then we get it - you are more tolerant than most consumers and you loyalty to TI is unshakeable. Great. I'm glad TI has a foundation that starts with you.

Most consumers are more objective in where they prefer to shop, and a fair and transparent shipping order would have satisfied a larger swah of their customer base and kept more of them interested in participating in future pre-orders. If that doesn't match your view of the world, great, but MANY MANY MANY other people feel differently and are entitled to say so without you forcing your (apparently minority) views on them.

The customer is always right, my friend.
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I just understand their decision to ship the way they did...repacking the rifles with spare mags and whatnot. Imagine, so and so ordered first, he got 5 spare mags, next guy was 10, next guy has 7 etc...it would be of course easier to ship all orders with only the included 2 mags first, including the ones that were ordered after the mags were sold out...I'm not ecstatic about it, but it makes sense to get them all out the door as fast as possible. The sooner these go out, the sooner the rest of you guys will get your folders...
 
cranswick said:
I just understand their decision to ship the way they did...repacking the rifles with spare mags and whatnot. Imagine, so and so ordered first, he got 5 spare mags, next guy was 10, next guy has 7 etc...it would be of course easier to ship all orders with only the included 2 mags first, including the ones that were ordered after the mags were sold out...I'm not ecstatic about it, but it makes sense to get them all out the door as fast as possible. The sooner these go out, the sooner the rest of you guys will get your folders...
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Yes, it is more convenient for ti to ship in whatever order is easiest for them. That's the exact reason why we all hate bell telephone and Rogers media. It's why small internet providers and online streaming are killing cable companies.

Consumers can choose who to deal with, and the ones that do a little extra to be fair and prioritize customer service are rewarded more over the long term.

Ti may have a monopoly on the t81 for now. That won't last and won't be true for all their product offerings. How many ppl will buy from them next time when a competitor can ship 200 rifle's a day in the order in which they were paid for?
 
Claven2 said:
Yes, it is more convenient for ti to ship in whatever order is easiest for them. That's the exact reason why we all hate bell telephone and Rogers media. It's why small internet providers and online streaming are killing cable companies.

Consumers can choose who to deal with, and the ones that do a little extra to be fair and prioritize customer service are rewarded more over the long term.

Ti may have a monopoly on the t81 for now. That won't last and won't be true for all their product offerings. How many ppl will buy from them next time when a competitor can ship 200 rifle's a day in the order in which they were paid for?
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Well said.
 
as long as TI remains a monopoly on T81, most of us will still have to deal with TI, for T81 repair kits or other accessories but once TI has had competition, people will remember the bad experiences they are having today.

I know for sure I will never pay full price for any of TI's pre-order fund raising events, no matter how bad I want the products.
 
Gun123 said:
as long as TI remains a monopoly on T81, most of us will still have to deal with TI, for T81 repair kits or other accessories but once TI has had competition, people will remember the bad experiences they are having today.

I know for sure I will never pay full price for any of TI's pre-order fund raising events, no matter how bad I want the products.
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Paying in full at the time of a pre-order is something that I expect many will not do again. It is certainly a cheap way for a seller to fund its ongoing cash requirements, but at the very least it is unnecessary until the time that the seller has to pay the manufacturer for the goods, which in this case was probably when they were actually delivered fob in China. The downside for the pre-order buyers of paying in full, apart from the admittedly small opportunity cost on the funds, is that the seller will go bankrupt in the interim and all the pre-order funds will go poof.
 
ashwood said:
Paying in full at the time of a pre-order is something that I expect many will not do again. It is certainly a cheap way for a seller to fund its ongoing cash requirements, but at the very least it is unnecessary until the time that the seller has to pay the manufacturer for the goods, which in this case was probably when they were actually delivered fob in China. The downside for the pre-order buyers of paying in full, apart from the admittedly small opportunity cost on the funds, is that the seller will go bankrupt in the interim and all the pre-order funds will go poof.
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Could not have said that any better than you did, the opportunity cost of the funds, risk of losing the whole amount in the event of a bankrupt and the frustration dealing with delays, and
may I also add, the frustration of the delays.
 
ashwood said:
Paying in full at the time of a pre-order is something that I expect many will not do again. It is certainly a cheap way for a seller to fund its ongoing cash requirements, but at the very least it is unnecessary until the time that the seller has to pay the manufacturer for the goods, which in this case was probably when they were actually delivered fob in China. The downside for the pre-order buyers of paying in full, apart from the admittedly small opportunity cost on the funds, is that the seller will go bankrupt in the interim and all the pre-order funds will go poof.
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I do not understand your point. As a buyer, I accepted all these risks when I placed my PRE-Order, clearly advertised as such.
 
The pre-order was nothing more than a TI crowd funding concept. From a business point of view it's probably a pretty good idea. A small retailer like TI would probably find it difficult in the open market to get $$$ lent to them, not possible at 0% and they get to make interest off it. I Kno w what I find frustrating is the lack of communication and the shipping process is not only a joke, but a slap in the face for those that pre-ordered.
If this was a rifle that I just ordered, waiting would not be such a big deal. But I don't think any future pay 100% preorders will work in the future.
 
FSB said:
I do not understand your point. As a buyer, I accepted all these risks when I placed my PRE-Order, clearly advertised as such.
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Maybe you understood all the risks and maybe you didn't. My point is that these are the risks, and in the future I expect that a few people will not want to take these risks. I don't think that a lot of pre-order buyers understood at the outset that this whole buying and shipping process would unfold as it has.
 
So how many of you are going to jump on the next pre-order? Something new comes along and the pre-order sale pops up on the forum and...
-Does everyone forget about this and the M10x garbage and scream out "take my money".
-Or has anyone learned anything and going to sit back and wait for the product you're paying for to at least be in the country?

I do understand the frustration of the guys who ordered a year ago but do other companies handle shipping any differently? When the APC came in did Wolverine ship them in the order the pre-sales were sold or was it simply a small enough shipment that nobody noticed because they all shipped within a couple days?
Is it simply that TI is doing the same as they've always done and what every company does except this time it's 1000 rifles to ship instead of 200?

My opinion is that we should all stop jumping in on pre-sales, you throw money at them and hope that you see your product within two years. I doubt very much that the pre-sale was needed to finance the purchase, that's what investors or a business loan is for if the company doesn't have the resources to fund it. One way or another if they can purchase these for $200-$300 each and sell them for $1000 each they'll find a way to make it happen. And if you don't like the idea of them marking them up that much then go ahead and try to import one yourself and see how far you get.


ashwood said:
Maybe you understood all the risks and maybe you didn't. My point is that these are the risks, and in the future I expect that a few people will not want to take these risks. I don't think that a lot of pre-order buyers understood at the outset that this whole buying and shipping process would unfold as it has.
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What risks? Were people not told way back in the beginning they could ask for a refund at any time?
Or do you just mean the risk that someone who ordered after someone else would receive their rifle first?
There is no risk, everyone will get their rifle, maybe not before someone else they feel entitled to get it before but every order will be filled and shipped as soon as they can get it out the door.

I'd like to know how many of the guys stomping their feed telling us how disgusted they are with this and that they'll never deal with TI again have shown TI how mad they are by asking for their money back. Na, it's just easier to complain on the internet and once their rifle arrives they'll start saving for the next pre-order.
 
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cr5 said:
So how many of you are going to jump on the next pre-order? Something new comes along and the pre-order sale pops up on the forum and...

Everyone forgets about this and the M10x garbage and screams out "take my money".
Or has anyone learned anything and going to sit back and wait for the product you're paying for to at least be in the county?

I do understand the frustration of the guys who ordered a year ago but do other companies handle shipping any differently? When the APC came in did Wolverine ship them in the order the pre-sales were sold or was it simply a small enough shipment that nobody noticed because they all shipped within a couple days?
Is it simply that TI is doing the same as they've always done and what every company does except this time it's 1000 rifles to ship instead of 200?

My opinion is that we should all stop jumping in on pre-sales, you throw money at them and hope that you see your product within two years. I doubt very much that the pre-sale was needed to finance the purchase, that's what investors or a business loan is for if the company doesn't have the resources to fund it. One way or another if they can purchase these for $200-$300 each and sell them for $1000 each they'll find a way to make it happen. And if you don't like the idea of them marking them up that much then go ahead and try to import one yourself and see how far you get.
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Or you mean the Mac Def AR right !?!??!?!?!
Don't forget thay one cuz it appears there are WAY MORE people ready to pre order that
 
And some understood "production is booked" to mean "production is booked", rather than "we hope and pray that PLA makes an order, so that we can book production".

I know. "It was just an ETA". Like every other step.
 
1bigrn said:
The pre-order was nothing more than a TI crowd funding concept. From a business point of view it's probably a pretty good idea. A small retailer like TI would probably find it difficult in the open market to get $$$ lent to them, not possible at 0% and they get to make interest off it. I Kno w what I find frustrating is the lack of communication and the shipping process is not only a joke, but a slap in the face for those that pre-ordered.
If this was a rifle that I just ordered, waiting would not be such a big deal. But I don't think any future pay 100% preorders will work in the future.
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I agree with you, with the lack of communication and transparency. This would also be my last order with TI.
 
bfiles said:
Or you mean the Mac Def AR right !?!??!?!?!
Don't forget thay one cuz it appears there are WAY MORE people ready to pre order that
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And all those people are why they will try to charge $3800 for a NR rifle instead of $1800 which is what it should sell for.

If they are forced to bring it to market wondering if it will be a success it will be priced pretty fairly but if they haven't done anything but come up with a business plan and they see a line of guys with fists full of hundred dollar bills screaming "take my money, I'll pay anything" you get the price jacked up and it doesn't come down till sales drop off. This is the trick with pre-sales, they not only get to sell every rifle for the first production run at a higher price but they are guaranteed success because they've already sold them all before building anything more than a prototype for the classification lab.
 
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