Production Optics and Production Optics Light approved as new divisions in IPSC

I do prefer the uspsa ruleset for production because it makes much more sense.

And IPSC has strayed far from their original mandate if you ask me. It supposed to be practical and it’s anything but. Most people I think would acknowledge that the dominant guns in production could almost be considered race guns.

And why would IPSC care if manufacturers improve their guns? And why not allow shooters to do the same ?

Just makes no sense but I think if you follow the money there might be some answers to be found
 
matchDQ said:
Wasn't that the point of production -- getting manufacturers to make their guns better? I was also told that the trigger pull test was a way to keep shooters honest.

Sounds like you just want ipsc to use uspsa rules.
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The point of production was to give a place for DA/SA and striker fired guns to play and not get smashed by the single actions guns
 
Like the idea of after market triggers being allowed, my main concern is the trigger reach for D/A pistol,not everybody has long fingers, the trigger weight is just secondary . There are manufacturers that have been offering after market " short trigger" for CZ ,Tans and Beretta, and I can't use them since it was not allowed then, starting to like this PO div, selling all my Opens.
 
Onagoth said:
And IPSC has strayed far from their original mandate if you ask me. It supposed to be practical and it’s anything but.
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If you want practical - shoot IDPA or go to the army. IPSC is a sport and a game. The sport had grown far from the original mandate or its roots. It also helped to develop many techniques of the modern pistol/rifle/shotgun manipulation and combat and those been adopted by the entities that have to do all the practical things. But all in all, IPSC is fulfilling its purpose.
 
After a bit more reading...
I don’t like the idea of aftermarket triggers and 3 lb pull in Production, or the PO Light idea.
I like the idea that a striker fired pistol has factory tested fire controls that are backed by their reputation.
All the inherent safeties in a striker fired gun are internal or directly linked to the trigger. Lightening and or shortening the pull all just narrow the window of safety of the design.
If offered by the factory, fine. It would be vetted by a manufacturer staking their reputation on it.
A DA/SA or SA gun is either hammer down or has to have multiple steps taken on independent controls to get a discharge.
But if I understand this new rules set we are okay with anyone doing anything to allow a 3 pound discharge under any condition...
Even with heavier than 3lb pulls several have had recalls or upgrades and the solutions all either increase trigger pull or lighten the mass of components to ensure safety.
So who’s testing the safety and durability of a modded striker gun (ie: drop,shock,etc)? Nobody.
“So I’ll take it to the basement and follow a -soon to be released- YouTube video going way past polishing to get that little advantage to make me a winner...”
I can see this happening to the point of norm.
I see nothing to gain with this.
Or I’m interpreting it wrong?
Flame suit on...
 
wasrupzuk said:
After a bit more reading...
I don’t like the idea of aftermarket triggers and 3 lb pull in Production, or the PO Light idea.
I like the idea that a striker fired pistol has factory tested fire controls that are backed by their reputation.
All the inherent safeties in a striker fired gun are internal or directly linked to the trigger. Lightening and or shortening the pull all just narrow the window of safety of the design.
If offered by the factory, fine. It would be vetted by a manufacturer staking their reputation on it.
A DA/SA or SA gun is either hammer down or has to have multiple steps taken on independent controls to get a discharge.
But if I understand this new rules set we are okay with anyone doing anything to allow a 3 pound discharge under any condition...
Even with heavier than 3lb pulls several have had recalls or upgrades and the solutions all either increase trigger pull or lighten the mass of components to ensure safety.
So who’s testing the safety and durability of a modded striker gun (ie: drop,shock,etc)? Nobody.
“So I’ll take it to the basement and follow a -soon to be released- YouTube video going way past polishing to get that little advantage to make me a winner...”
I can see this happening to the point of norm.
I see nothing to gain with this.
Or I’m interpreting it wrong?
Flame suit on...
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Everything you've described already takes place in Standard. It doesn't all of a sudden become a safety issue because it's now allowed in Production.
 
wasrupzuk said:
No it doesn’t, re-read my post, one line in particular.
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3 lbs. trigger pull refers to stryker guns. You can make it less than that in Standard. Nobody vets the safety of these lighter trigger pulls other than the shooter. At the end of the day, the shooter is responsible for his/her firearm and its safe function.
 
euxx said:
If you want practical - shoot IDPA or go to the army. IPSC is a sport and a game. The sport had grown far from the original mandate or its roots. It also helped to develop many techniques of the modern pistol/rifle/shotgun manipulation and combat and those been adopted by the entities that have to do all the practical things. But all in all, IPSC is fulfilling its purpose.
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That’s fine, but maybe then they should take the work practical out of their name
 
Zee705 said:
3 lbs. trigger pull refers to stryker guns. You can make it less than that in Standard. Nobody vets the safety of these lighter trigger pulls other than the shooter. At the end of the day, the shooter is responsible for his/her firearm and its safe function.
Click to expand...

In standard, the trigger discharges the firearm, that is all it does.
Other separate controls and systems operate independently from the trigger.
In standard your finger discharges the gun but cannot do so unless your thumb agrees by originally disengaging the safety.
On your striker gun all of these functions are performed via the trigger through a single act of the finger actuating it.
My concerns mostly relate to what happens after LAMR and the first discharge, hopefully downrange, at a target. But now we’re cutting that safety window in half so you feel you have a competitive chance (IMO).
I’m not comfortable with that. Period.
But my opinion won’t buy you a cup of coffee so, meh...

wasrupzuk said:
All the inherent safeties in a striker fired gun are internal or directly linked to the trigger. Lightening and or shortening the pull all just narrow the window of safety of the design.
A DA/SA or SA gun is either hammer down or has to have multiple steps taken on independent controls to get a discharge.
Click to expand...
 
wasrupzuk said:
In standard, the trigger discharges the firearm, that is all it does.
Other separate controls and systems operate independently from the trigger.
In standard your finger discharges the gun but cannot do so unless your thumb agrees by originally disengaging the safety.
On your striker gun all of these functions are performed via the trigger through a single act of the finger actuating it.
My concerns mostly relate to what happens after LAMR and the first discharge, hopefully downrange, at a target. But now we’re cutting that safety window in half so you feel you have a competitive chance (IMO).
I’m not comfortable with that. Period.
But my opinion won’t buy you a cup of coffee so, meh...
Click to expand...

No amount of mechincal safety will help someone with poor trigger finger discipline
 
IDPA is ruled by striker fired guns with 3lb triggers. Thousands of stages are shot every weekend without issues. The safety record with IDPA is no different than IPSC or USPSA. In eleven years of SOing a major match I have yet to see an AD or know of an injury resulting from striker fired guns which is not to say they don't happen or guys have not shot themselves. Where things can get hairy is upon holstering IF the shooter has a loose shirt. That is an issue and our SO's are supposed to watch for loose shirts during the LMR and holstering. In the case of loose clothing a 5# trigger on a striker fired pistol is just as susceptible to an AD. I think this issue is a bit of a canard.

Whether a striker fired gun has a 6# trigger or 3# the issues are out there. There are no active safeties on most striker fired pistols. It seems to be an accepted risk the owners are comfortable with. I am.

Good on IPSC for making the change.

Take Care

Bob
 
Onagoth said:
No amount of mechincal safety will help someone with poor trigger finger discipline
Click to expand...

When did I say an issue would involve poor trigger finger discipline?
I can think of several scenarios which could cause a ND that wouldn’t have a finger anywhere near the trigger...
You are proposing to change the rules that were very rigidly against modification 180 degrees on the very core control that ensures safety.
Most striker guns do not have independent safeties to counter extreme situations or poor workmanship.
Everything the engineer put in to make it safe your willing to let anyone cut up and modify.
Your actually way past willing as a vocal advocate, I assume you have a vested interest in the outcome.
My opinion might be seen as conflict of interest as I currently run a Shadow.
But I’m just airing on the side of caution; I want to be reasonably safe enjoying this sport.
As an RO I’m comfortable with external safeties and factory internals within striker fired guns.
As an RO I’m not comfortable with the newbies un-maintained 3lb home job striker gun (and don’t discount this guy, he’ll be everywhere).
Hang a safety on it, fine.
Leave it factory, fine.
What is so hard to grasp?
 
wasrupzuk said:
When did I say an issue would involve poor trigger finger discipline?
I can think of several scenarios which could cause a ND that wouldn’t have a finger anywhere near the trigger...
You are proposing to change the rules that were very rigidly against modification 180 degrees on the very core control that ensures safety.
Most striker guns do not have independent safeties to counter extreme situations or poor workmanship.
Everything the engineer put in to make it safe your willing to let anyone cut up and modify.
Your actually way past willing as a vocal advocate, I assume you have a vested interest in the outcome.
My opinion might be seen as conflict of interest as I currently run a Shadow.
But I’m just airing on the side of caution; I want to be reasonably safe enjoying this sport.
As an RO I’m comfortable with external safeties and factory internals within striker fired guns.
As an RO I’m not comfortable with the newbies un-maintained 3lb home job striker gun (and don’t discount this guy, he’ll be everywhere).
Hang a safety on it, fine.
Leave it factory, fine.
What is so hard to grasp?
Click to expand...

Again, this already goes on in Standard division. Are you proposing limiting trigger work on stryker guns in general?
 
Zee705 said:
Again, this already goes on in Standard division. Are you proposing limiting trigger work on stryker guns in general?
Click to expand...

I would propose to leave the rule book alone in reguards to striker fired triggers.
IF the global push is for change then yes, leave the fire controls On striker fired guns OFM.
 
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