1958 (K) Factory Matching Letter Series SKS

To explore a little further on the suggestion made by gewehr76 that the EP'd stock plates are a possible indication of refurb, we can look to contemporary Chinese production for some potential insights.

The early Chinese guns are, for all intents and purposes, EXACT copies of the final, post 1954 soviet sks design. In fact the first 3-5 years of Chinese type56 production were overseen by soviet technical advisors. By all indications the Chinese followed the same exact manufacturing and finishing protocols that the Soviets did.

For every design, manufacturing, and finishing trait on the early Chinese guns, we see what amounts to essentially ZERO deviation from the Soviet standard. (Except for the difference in wood used for the stocks).

From this there is a very convincing argument to make that the absence of EP serials on the Chinese stockplates indicates that the same standard existed for newly manufactured Soviet guns.

This notion acquires further support with contemporaneous sks production in Romania: No ep's on stock plates being the norm on the Romaninan guns as well.
 
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^ Romanian and Chinese guns are different.

They may “follow” the same pattern, but do have many differences. Even the early Chinese ones.

Also don’t forget EPd butt plates was a mid 1954-end of Soviet production.

Early Soviet SKS rifles didn’t have EPd butt plates, but this decision was made for some reason.
 
pcvando said:
^ Romanian and Chinese guns are different.
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Wrong. The M59's and early Type56's are exact copies of the post 1954 soviet design. (expcept for the stock wood).

pcvando said:
They may “follow” the same pattern, but do have many differences. Even the early Chinese ones.
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Oh? Please, do everyone a favor and list these differences that show deviation in design, production, and finishing protocols between the late sks45, M59 and early type56.
(Here, again, I won't hold my breath).

pcvando said:
Also don’t forget EPd butt plates was a mid 1954-end of Soviet production.

Early Soviet SKS rifles didn’t have EPd butt plates, but this decision was made for some reason.
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Plenty of early soviet sks45's have ep serials on the stock plates. Nearly without exception, these early guns exhibit various indications of...(drum roll)....refurbishment.

Additionally, the majority of the post 1954 sks45's have NO ep serial on the stock plates.
 
jaroslav said:
The Russians were taught handwritting the same way. When I was a kid, I had a few Pals in Russia and theirs handwritting looked the same.
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Ok, good for you? Want a cookie?

The fact is whoever EPd the gas tube, rear sight, and piston, was the same person that EPd the butt plate.

It’s been looked at by someone who was an expert in this field for 30+ years.

There is zero doubt.
 
jaroslav said:
The Russians were taught handwritting the same way. When I was a kid, I had a few Pals in Russia and theirs handwritting looked the same.
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Even if kids are taught the same handwriting doesn’t mean subtle differences don’t exist.

Please leave this stuff to the experts.
 
Found some with ep butt plates, letter series and a 54 I don't think has been refurbished, will try and share some pics.

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^^Both of the rifles above have paint chips visible at top and sides of the stock plate.

Also the wear patterns on both plates have a well traveled appearance. Yet the EP serials are quite fresh. Given the wear that stockplates generally receive even upright in a storage rack, those ep serials are likelier more recent applications
 
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Boris Badinov said:
^^That '54 above has paint chips visible at top and sides of the stock plate.
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Which we already discussed.

This is NOT a sign of refurbishment. But you do you, keep tooting your own horn.

Are you afraid of being wrong? Do you like the power you get on your forums when everyone thinks your an expert?

You might be able to fool others but not us. Go toot your horn elsewhere.
 
I do have refurbed ones from the same year, they don't have ep butt plates, but do have replacement stocks , and none of the black paint preservative that show on these.
 
I will take a look at the bayonet lug on mine, hadn't thought of that. And take a pic of the crown. If I remember it looks almost like chrome, no bluing on the crown at all.
 
jaroslav said:
The Russians were taught handwritting the same way. When I was a kid, I had a few Pals in Russia and theirs handwritting looked the same.
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You can't be serious, Jaroslav. This kind of statement and conclusions from them are Boris' privilege. No wonder he is cheering it. I wouldn't expected it from anyone else. Really? 300 million ppl with exactly the same handwriting?

So number 1 - no, all ppl have different handwtiring, no matter how you teach them. That's why even in USSR there were forensic experts in handwriting.
And number 2 - I was the kid that wrote to you. Well, may be. I was the kid from USSR that had pen pals in Czechoslovakia. Kids in USSR stayed in the same class for 10 years, so somewhere in 4th or 5th when everyone has his own style established I could have identified handwriting of most of my classmates, not because I was born an expert, but because when you see same faces and their notepads for years you kinda start noticing and recognizing difference.

I am just amazed that discussion came to such ridiculous points and they are coming not from Boris.
Generally we approached the level "You can't prove this rifle is not-refurb because over the course on decades noone can guarantee that there were no extraterrestrial force that applied extra chip of varnish to the stock". Jeez.
There are number of parameters and modified mag and touch up black paint does not constitute refurb, unlike for example bbq paint and/or rebluing.
 
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machinistbutler said:
I will take a look at the bayonet lug on mine, hadn't thought of that. And take a pic of the crown. If I remember it looks almost like chrome, no bluing on the crown at all.
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From the few photos provided, the 1954 carbine you shared above is about as high condition as they come.

Even with the paint chips on fresh EP serial on the stock plate, most in the US would call it as near to original as they come.

Nice catch, btw. Or should I say, nice cache?
 
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Romanian M56 and Chinese type 56 are EXACT copies of the late sks45, with initial years of production in China overseen by soviet technical advisors, likely in Romania too.

Apart from stock wood, there is exactly ZERO evidence of any deviation from the Soviet production methods and protocols Literally, none. 100% part interchangeability between all three variants -- m56, early type 56, and sks45.

If the Chinese and Romanian guns have no evidence of EP serials on stock plates. It's a reasonable conclusion that new production sks45's didnt have them either.

All three manufactured contemporaneously from 1956 until 1958.
 
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