Swiss Arms - worth the price?

...worth the money?.....

...yes, they certainly are worth the money!...in Switzerland, they cost about the same price as they do in Canada, and they will not depreciate in value like an AR-15 will. I personally took a tour of the factory and I was amazed by the employees attention to quality control. American collector/shooters are envious and will offer you a king's ransom for one! A Swiss Arm will actually become an investment rather than just another gun in the collection.
 
The LCF is great w/ the PE90 but the AR offers more options and accessories by far. The mag price is too high $80 for 5 rder vs a $35 RRA 10rd AR mag and IMO so is the rifle but the market will support this price by paying it so why would the importer sell for less. There is only one importer and they try to control pricing which is fine but this means little or no competition ie. Wolverine who bought them from the importer sold brand new ones awhile back for $2800 which I trust didn't sit well w/ the importer. It is my understanding that there are only a few hundred rifles in Canada and shipments are irregular so supply/demand dictates that the price is high.
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Mags don't cost $80, but they are relatively expensive. I think a more accurate comparison would be the Swiss Arms 20/5 mag at $55 vs a new C products 30/5rd mag at $35.

We don't control pricing. If dealers order big, they get a better discount and they are free to sell at whatever price they choose. However please try to remember that margins on guns are not that great and most dealers want to make a little money selling them.
Demand is high and waits are long for the guns, we could charge more if we wanted to, but they are fairly priced. You can easily confirm this by checking the Swiss prices on comparable rifles.
I guess it's funny that folks think a Swiss Arms rifle costs too much, but they seem to be OK paying the same price for a Tavor. Swiss Arms rifles come with an accuracy guarantee, and are test fired at the factory to confirm iron sight zero, and reliability. QC costs money and these products have it in spades.
 
Redleg, how long is the wait for one?

redleg said:
Mags don't cost $80, but they are relatively expensive. I think a more accurate comparison would be the Swiss Arms 20/5 mag at $55 vs a new C products 30/5rd mag at $35.

We don't control pricing. If dealers order big, they get a better discount and they are free to sell at whatever price they choose. However please try to remember that margins on guns are not that great and most dealers want to make a little money selling them.
Demand is high and waits are long for the guns, we could charge more if we wanted to, but they are fairly priced. You can easily confirm this by checking the Swiss prices on comparable rifles.
I guess it's funny that folks think a Swiss Arms rifle costs too much, but they seem to be OK paying the same price for a Tavor. Swiss Arms rifles come with an accuracy guarantee, and are test fired at the factory to confirm iron sight zero, and reliability. QC costs money and these products have it in spades.
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Before buying mine I got the chance to try one. I was very very impressed.
The nagging sensation in me to buy one did not go away so I gave in :D
 
Redleg can you still get the rifle in Black Special? how long would the wait be for one?
 
who cares about accuracy? ;) Can you do that with an AR15?
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P.S: accuracy is as it is shown on the test target shot at the factory.
 
Factory acceptance is 10rds into an 11cm x 11cm square at 300m using GP90 ammo. All guns must meet the requirement before shipping.

Rifles are still available, I have no idea how long it will be before SAN ships more. We start at the top of the waiting list and work down, if folks have changed their minds or spent their money we keep moving down the list. How long you will wait is very much dependant on more variables than I can calculate.
 
I have had not thought about the price of my classic green since the first time I held her in my hands, until tonight that is.....now it gives me excuses to buy higher end gear for it........you can't put hub caps on a Ferrari
 
4.33 inches by 4.33 inches at 300 yards. That's pretty good. What is the accuracy at 100 yards?

With the Les Baer .5 moa (half an inch at 100 yards or less guarantee for 5 round groups). The prices are pretty close on both of these rifles.

I saw a Swiss Arms at the guns store the other day. A black one, that was being scoped up. the owner went with the same set up I'm putting on my LR-308. A Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20x 50mm with Zeiss Rings. It looked good on the Swiss Arms rifle.
 
I have a BlueStar and it is a sweet rifle but I do tend to use the AR15 more for service rifle shoots. I guess I use it more for service rifle because it is as close to a C7 as I can get. However, I really can't seem to talk myself into selling the BlueStar, it just feels better built and seems to be more reliable also the fact that it is non-restricted makes it really difficult to let it go. Are they worth $3000? Maybe, depends on what you are looking for.
 
rigrat said:
Straight out of the box you can shoot sub-minute of angle.
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No you can't. Redleg said ten shots into an 11cm square, my understanding is that it's 9/10 shots into a 10cm square at 300m, either way it's somewhere around 1.33 MOA, with GP90, which is more accurate than the average .223 you will find in your local gun shop.

Bear in mind that's out of a test fixture at the factory, you won't do it out on the range. I've sat behind a berm in Switzerland marking targets for the equivalent of several days and I've only seen one guy come anywhere near it.
 
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UncleWalther said:
I am thinking of buying a Swiss Arms Black Special, but I am reluctant due to the high price tag. Are they worth the dough? Why are they so pricey anyway?
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They're worth the money but it really depends on what you are looking for. Out-of-the-box I personally don't think there is a better mass-produced .223 semi-auto.

However, you can do better with a top-end AR-15, and if you're careful about what you buy AR-15 wise you can get better value for money. The other advantage is that there are ten-round pistol mags that work with the AR-15. Easier to mount a scope on a flat-top AR-15 as well.

But... the Black Special is non-restricted which is a big plus.

Basically the PE90 is less hassle. You know it will work out of the box and you can use it on any range or even for varminting.

You can do better with a custom or semi-custom AR-15 but it's a hassle to find the right one/import one and you can only use it on approved ranges.

Just do what I did and buy both. :p
 
redleg said:
Rifles are still available, I have no idea how long it will be before SAN ships more. We start at the top of the waiting list and work down, if folks have changed their minds or spent their money we keep moving down the list. How long you will wait is very much dependant on more variables than I can calculate.
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Any chance of some flat tops coming in? I think I'd prefer one of those, but I sure wouldn't turn up my nose if it was just the standard version that come in.
 
For those asking, it appears that SAN has shipped a large number of rifles. Barring any customs stupidity we should have them in the store in about a week.
There is a mix of classic Green, Black Special and Black Special Target. We actually have enough to satisfy all of our outstanding orders so there should not be a wait time for those interested in a rifle.
No CQBs or Carbines this load though.
 
How does it compare to the HK SL-8?
Since Neither are restricted, it should be a fair comparison. Also both use a gas piston.

Accuracy wise etc.
 
The Swiss Arms blows the HK out of the water, hands down! I own Swiss Arms rifles & plan on buying another. I also own a number of AR-15s which I like very much. However, no question about it, the Swiss Arms is a better built, more robust firearm. If you want something to hang all kinds fo doodads and gizmos off of, the AR is most definitely for you. If you're looking for a no frills, completely dependable and accurate out-of-the-box rifle that you can still take coyote hunting, then the Swiss Arms is for you.

I love my Colt, STAG & LMT AR-15s, but I love my Swiss Arms more. As for the price of magazines, while I'll admit I'd love to see the Swiss Arms magazines drop to US AR-15 mag prices, I know that's not going to happen. That said, one of the great weaknesses of the AR-15/M-16 platform has always been the magazines. They're fragile & easily subject to damage in a combat environment. The Swiss Arms mags are more robust, even though they're polymer, plus they have the added advantage of being able to snap together.

Some will argue that the AR mag change is much faster. Maybe for newbies to the Swiss Arms/AK style mag changes that's true, but with practice, you can come darn close to matching, if not exceeding those speeds. Plus, you get a much more positive lock-up than you do with the AR platform.

In the end though, this is one of those debates where there are no "right" answers. Kinda' like the age-old Ford vs. Chevy or Mustang vs. Camaro debate. Buy what feels best to you, afterall, you only have to please yourself!
 
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