Trudeau's Gun Ban and Buy Back

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griffin86 said:
It’s okay, it’s just “part and parcel of living in a big city”.
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"And the Douche of the Year awards goes to... Sadiq Khan! For an incredible three years in a row! Well done, sir! Not everyone has that much douchiness in them."
 
Maple57 said:
What gets me is how they spew "facts" about reducing "gun related" injuries or deaths in countries with strict gun control efforts, but fail to mention any offsetting rise in injuries or deaths caused by other means.

They so clearly refer to stopping "gun related violence", but not violence in general.

To me the real argument is that if we consider a world of tomorrow without a single gun in existence, would that world be free of violence, or would violence simply exist by other means?

I would fully expect stabbings and beatings to rise in the absence of firearms.
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look no further than places like the UK, or closer to home look at Minneapolis and the roaming gangs of Somalians beating drunks for their wallets and phones, all caught on film. guns even the odds for many people, not every situation, but a world without guns is a brutal place i hope we never see. and a world without violence means only one thing, all lifeforms are dead so we wont be seeing that.
 
skatemike77 said:
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Second, tell that to the rice farmers of Vietnam, the goat farmers of Afghanistan and the ISIS boys of Iraq. Yawn.
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More hilarity. Those people were motivated because they had no option. It was either fight, or literally starve to death.

You will not stand your ground against the RCMP. You know you won't. Put Rambo back in your pants, clowns.
 
Anyone know the Bloc’s stance on firearms? Looking at seat projections today and they have as much influence as the NDP in a possible minority situation.
 
BCreserveMP said:
This. And you wonder why the MSM allows gun owners to look like delusional, histrionic loonies. It's because they really don't have to work that hard.
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No kidding. The level of hard core and entrenched anger and positions here is disheartening. It's diffciult to have a rational discussion here. Seems like most aren't open to it and would rather throw around insults. I won't vote Conservative. Not happening. They are no longer progressive , just conservative and many of their positions and policies go strongly against things I hold in high value. But instead of trying to find common ground and working together there sees to be a desire to further divided peoele as us or them, good guy or enemy, etc. That's not helpful. Not that it matters much but I emailed my MP (who is a Liberal) and copied the PM and Ralph Goodale to express my displeasure with the proposed bans. This is what I said:

"I am writing to you as a long time Liberal supporter. However, over the last year or two I am finding my support wavering due to a number of policies and actions which I feel are politically expedient but do little to serve Canadians and, may in fact, be of more harm than good.

The latest issue, which finally spurred me into action to write you, was the recently announced gun bans. I am a fairly left leaning, liberal (with a small L) person. I also own firearms and enjoy target shooting. While I do not, at this time, own any AR style rifles I have several handguns I take to the range. I have no interest in hunting or killing but find target shooting to require skill development and to be both a focusing, mind clearing activity and relaxing. Your new policy would penalize hundreds of thousands of similar Canadians that are law abiding and responsible and only wish to partake in a sport they enjoy.

I believe the data and evidence does not support a ban on AR style rifles or handguns making Canadians any safer. I do not believe any AR style rifles have been used in mass shootings or crimes in Canada. If you have data to the contrary I would welcome receiving and reviewing it. Additionally, there is little difference between an AR style rifle available to civilians in Canada and many hunting rifles you would deem to be acceptable. The differences are cosmetic only, as AR rifles are only semi-automatic, like many hunting rifles, and limited to 5 round magazines, like all hunting rifles.

Similarly, I do not believe the evidence or data supports a handgun ban as improving public safety. The vast majority of handguns used in crime are smuggled into Canada from the United States and purchased illegally by criminals. Additionally, it appears that underground manufacturing of handguns by criminals is also increasing. While I understand that the handgun used in the Danforth shooting was one that originated in Canada and was stolen from a gun shop, it too was purchased illegally and the shooter could have easily purchased a smuggled gun from the same source this stolen one came from if, hypothetically, there were no civilian handguns available in Canada. There have also been a small number of cases of straw purchasers buying handguns legally and then reselling them to criminials. This is also a small fraction of the illegal handguns on our streets. It is politically expedient to tug on heart strings and point to victims such as those in the Danforth shooting while claiming you wish to protect Canadians, but the availability of handguns to law abiding citizens had nothing to do with that tragedy.

Finally, any buyback of banned firearms will cost taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars. The government could do far more good spending those millions on increased resources for law enforcement to address the sources of the vast majority of firearms used in crime. Banning them only serves the optics of your politics in an attempt to win votes but will be ineffective in curbing criminal use of firearms. The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police themselves agree that a ban would be ineffective. I would urge you to reconsider this ill advised strategy as it may cost you as many votes as it wins you. instead, use your efforts and taxpayer money to better enable law enforcement to tackle the the real problems and enforce the laws we already have in place."

Perhaps if more people took a rational approach and wrote to MPs, the press, etc to promote facts and show support for legal gun ownership while pointing out the flaws in the rationale more could be accomplished. Calling people names, threatening violence and civil war and holding extreme viewpoints won't help. It will only hurt.
 
RK99 said:
No kidding. The level of hard core and entrenched anger and positions here is disheartening. It's diffciult to have a rational discussion here. Seems like most aren't open to it and would rather throw around insults. I won't vote Conservative. Not happening. They are no longer progressive , just conservative and many of their positions and policies go strongly against things I hold in high value. But instead of trying to find common ground and working together there sees to be a desire to further divided peoele as us or them, good guy or enemy, etc. That's not helpful. Not that it matters much but I emailed my MP (who is a Liberal) and copied the PM and Ralph Goodale to express my displeasure with the proposed bans. This is what I said:

"I am writing to you as a long time Liberal supporter. However, over the last year or two I am finding my support wavering due to a number of policies and actions which I feel are politically expedient but do little to serve Canadians and, may in fact, be of more harm than good.

The latest issue, which finally spurred me into action to write you, was the recently announced gun bans. I am a fairly left leaning, liberal (with a small L) person. I also own firearms and enjoy target shooting. While I do not, at this time, own any AR style rifles I have several handguns I take to the range. I have no interest in hunting or killing but find target shooting to require skill development and to be both a focusing, mind clearing activity and relaxing. Your new policy would penalize hundreds of thousands of similar Canadians that are law abiding and responsible and only wish to partake in a sport they enjoy.

I believe the data and evidence does not support a ban on AR style rifles or handguns making Canadians any safer. I do not believe any AR style rifles have been used in mass shootings or crimes in Canada. If you have data to the contrary I would welcome receiving and reviewing it. Additionally, there is little difference between an AR style rifle available to civilians in Canada and many hunting rifles you would deem to be acceptable. The differences are cosmetic only, as AR rifles are only semi-automatic, like many hunting rifles, and limited to 5 round magazines, like all hunting rifles.

Similarly, I do not believe the evidence or data supports a handgun ban as improving public safety. The vast majority of handguns used in crime are smuggled into Canada from the United States and purchased illegally by criminals. Additionally, it appears that underground manufacturing of handguns by criminals is also increasing. While I understand that the handgun used in the Danforth shooting was one that originated in Canada and was stolen from a gun shop, it too was purchased illegally and the shooter could have easily purchased a smuggled gun from the same source this stolen one came from if, hypothetically, there were no civilian handguns available in Canada. There have also been a small number of cases of straw purchasers buying handguns legally and then reselling them to criminials. This is also a small fraction of the illegal handguns on our streets. It is politically expedient to tug on heart strings and point to victims such as those in the Danforth shooting while claiming you wish to protect Canadians, but the availability of handguns to law abiding citizens had nothing to do with that tragedy.

Finally, any buyback of banned firearms will cost taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars. The government could do far more good spending those millions on increased resources for law enforcement to address the sources of the vast majority of firearms used in crime. Banning them only serves the optics of your politics in an attempt to win votes but will be ineffective in curbing criminal use of firearms. The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police themselves agree that a ban would be ineffective. I would urge you to reconsider this ill advised strategy as it may cost you as many votes as it wins you. instead, use your efforts and taxpayer money to better enable law enforcement to tackle the the real problems and enforce the laws we already have in place."

Perhaps if more people took a rational approach and wrote to MPs, the press, etc to promote facts and show support for legal gun ownership while pointing out the flaws in the rationale more could be accomplished. Calling people names, threatening violence and civil war and holding extreme viewpoints won't help. It will only hurt.
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We appreciate what you wrote to your MP, hopefully they get some sense.

I would like to single out what I have bolded - you know as well as everyone else that the left in general is not interested in the facts surrounding this issue. The left's irrationality is often met with reason and truth but that can only go for so long without people getting fed up and becoming irrational.
 
I need to get this information to Wolverine:

https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=res&dir=ces&document=part6&lang=e
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-ag...-total-contributions-line-410-tax-credit.html


Tax Credits
Contribution Tax Credit
$0.01 to $400 75 percent
$400.01 to $750 $300 plus 50 percent of the amount by which the contribution exceeds $400
$750.01 and over The lesser of:
$475 plus 33 1/3 percent of the amount by which the total exceeds $750; and
$650

75% of your donation for the first $400 is tax credited.... Meaning if you donate $400 you are only out of pocket $100 after you file your taxes.

This information would be helpful for your site URL... Be able to get more money moving.
https://www.wolverinesupplies.com/2019-federal-election
 
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Bfranklin said:
We appreciate what you wrote to your MP, hopefully they get some sense.

I would like to single out what I have bolded - you know as well as everyone else that the left in general is not interested in the facts surrounding this issue. The left's irrationality is often met with reason and truth but that can only go for so long without people getting fed up and becoming irrational.
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And the same could be said for positions held by the right. Humans tend to be driven by emotions and will hold onto positions that fit in with their cognitive view of the world, left, right or center. Facts rarely seem to move them once they have an opinion. You see this in gun control (especially in the US), vaccination, climate science etc. We aren't taught rational thinking in school. We aren't taught how to look at evidence. At least not until many University subjects. School generally teach kids to memorize and regurgitate. So this is what we get.
 
RK99 said:
No problem. Trying to do my part.
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I see you still believe in the system?

If rational adults with higher education and years of experience in politics tell blatant lies on record, in parliament and on TV, for me it means:

1. They are liars.
2. They have an agenda.
3. They are sure they can get away with anything.

You can keep blowing smoke up their asses, hoping they will fly.

They are liars and criminals, getting away with it just because they are the ruling elite.
 
RK99 said:
And the same could be said for positions held by the right. Humans tend to be driven by emotions and will hold onto positions that fit in with their cognitive view of the world, left, right or center. Facts rarely seem to move them once they have an opinion. You see this in gun control (especially in the US), vaccination, climate science etc. We aren't taught rational thinking in school. We aren't taught how to look at evidence. At least not until many University subjects. School generally teach kids to memorize and regurgitate. So this is what we get.
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What facts are the right ignoring regarding gun control?
 
Paul_1982 said:
Anyone know the Bloc’s stance on firearms? Looking at seat projections today and they have as much influence as the NDP in a possible minority situation.
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Their website and policy paper lack any mention to firearms, violent crime or even criminal justice for that matter.

Which I think ultimately is a good thing, because it means they won't be breaking any promises if they support a CPC gun bill in a quid pro quo for something that is closer to their core interests.

Problem is their core interests are a grocery bag of things the CPC will be hard pressed to bend on.
 
RK99 said:
And the same could be said for positions held by the right. Humans tend to be driven by emotions and will hold onto positions that fit in with their cognitive view of the world, left, right or center. Facts rarely seem to move them once they have an opinion. You see this in gun control (especially in the US), vaccination, climate science etc. We aren't taught rational thinking in school. We aren't taught how to look at evidence. At least not until many University subjects. School generally teach kids to memorize and regurgitate. So this is what we get.
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Right. So in which class did you learn about 199 Billion dollars in offshore tax havens? Or is that a claim that you don't intend to back up with a fact?

Just like your ridiculous accusation about corporate fraud under the Harper government, your well intended letter also includes certain made up facts that you couldn't possibly substantiate.

Its a bit disingenuous to go on about people ignoring facts and letting emotion drive their decision making when you have a strong track record of making up your own 'facts'.

Google wasn't really a thing until I after I'd graduated university. Its a marvelous thing that took me all of 30 seconds to learn.

And while yes I agree with you that people seem to be losing their ability to make decisions that are well informed by valid and relevant facts, so too people are losing their ability to detect to discredit BS when they hear it. Two sides of the same the coin.

Fortunately, as citizens, we don't actually have to do the complicated hard work of forming policy based on solid evidence, and we certainly aren't the ones that need to do the especially hard work of research and fact finding. All the average Joe needs to be able to do is to demand that politicians show their math, publish their facts, and let the intelligent public come to the same conclusion as the politicians.

TO you credit, you did do that to a certain degree in your letter, and you did it politely. For that, credit where credit is due.

And this I think is where we really undermine the liberals, both to themselves, and the public. IN listening to all the liberal politicians defend C71 and these bans, all you need to ask if: "have you even read the bill that you claim to support" have you reviewed the available evidence yourself and come to your own conclusion that this bill will achieve its aims?" Even if the Liberals won't admit to you, you can see it in their eyes when they realize that they don't actually have a clue what they are talking about.

You also rightly pointed out that doing the wrong thing carries with it a significant opportunity cost of not doing the right thing.
 
Milanczar said:
Yes.

Any Liberal Minority will include either the NDP or Greens.

The opinion of BOTH the NDP and Greens is that the only thing wrong with the Liberal plan is THAT IT DID NOT HAPPEN SOONER.

So we are screwed both ways.

Only way is CPC majority.

The latest polls show it is possible.

So support your local CPC candidate.

Volunteer or donate to keep your guns.

Remember the donations are TAX DEDUCTIONS so you get money back on what you spend on keeping your firearms.

Also remember there is nothing about ANY buy back for your gear, ammunition, reloading or storage/locking equipment.

The time to support the CPC and get others to do so is NOW
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The closest way to end liberal reign is with a conservative vote, not vote splitting with the CPC fringe party lead by someone who goes to bed with his biker girl and wakes up leaving confidential documents at her place. You cannot be serious?
 
Bfranklin said:
What facts are the right ignoring regarding gun control?
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Its a fair point that there is a certain degree of statistical manipulation and massaging of data from members in our community, but certainly no where near to the extent on the other side of the issue.

I've seen dozens of pro gun articles that either deliberately or inadvertently misrepresent gun tracing stats in an unnecessary attempt to debunk the 50% domestically sourced issue, as an example.
 
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