Straight wall cartridges in shotun only deer zones?

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flyinlead

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Many states in the US that used to only be shotgun for deer are now allowing hunters to use straight wall rifle cartridges. They've realized that the big slow bullets are about the same ballistis as the sabot shotgun slugs.

I'd love to see Ontario move to this. Would there be any chance of that change being made here? I think I'm going to email the OFAH, they seem to have quite a bit of pull.

I ran some rough numbers and the hottest flattest shooting 12 ga sabot slug hits the dirt at 350 yards, and the flattest .444 marlin hits ground at 400 yards. Not enough difference to matter really. (this is fired level from a height of 5' with a 150 yard zero)

If they're worried about the extra 50 yards maybe certain named cartridges could be allowed, that don't have enough case capacity to exceed shotgun sabot ballistics.

(A 270 130 gr hits ground at 575 yards for comparison sake)

I'd be all over a siamese mauser 45/70 handloaded hot, and the lever gun fans would sure be happy too. It could be argued that there would be more humane kills with more accurate rifles.
 
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53Izzy744 said:
Dont bother. The MNR are the experts and should never be questioned.
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I think its more a matter of nobody has bothered to pusue the matter, its just too much effort and they do it that way because they always have. I doubt anybody there has any specific vendtta against straight wall cartridges. The numbers and facts speak for themselves its just a matter of getting the right people to make it happen.
 
yomomma said:
Ive been a member since '83...I can tell you what they pull
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Yes, exactly I’d say opening up Sunday gun hunting was a major achievement and is exactly the kind of advocacy that we need. Would you prefer the OFAH did not exist and mon-fri guys could only hunt half their weekend?

What I’m talking about is absolutely reasonable and do- able. I suppose the question is how to go about it. What’s the process for making changes to these provincial hunting regulations?

It’s not like trying to talk the federal liberals out of their gun control nonsense, that’s a whole different playing field.
 
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id love to see pistol cal rifles allowed to be used for small game in southern Ontario but its not going to happen. for an example Essex county im allowed to use a .243/6mm but not a .357 mag lever gun :rolleyes:
 
flyinlead said:
Yes, exactly I’d say opening up Sunday gun hunting was a major achievement and is exactly the kind of advocacy that we need. Would you prefer the OFAH did not exist and mon-fri guys could only hunt half their weekend?

What I’m talking about is absolutely reasonable and do- able. I suppose the question is how to go about it.

It’s not like trying to talk the federal liberals out of their gun control nonsense, that’s a whole different playing field.
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Not major since Sunday hunting is not allowed throught the whole province. They sat with thumbs up their ass during C-17 and C-68
 
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It would be nice if the OFAH could defeat the federal liberal monster of gun control, I honestly wish they could but it may not be a realistic expectation. More action would be nice, I do agree on that.
These provincial hunting regulations however I would see as much more in their realm. (And they have by the way gotten Sunday gun hunt approval in most municipalities. Which is a lot of work because they’ve had to lobby each individual municipality)
On another note I just searched the Ontario fish and wildlife conservation act, and the set fines list for the act, and I cannot find this shotguns only law anywhere. Does anybody know where this falls under?
 
It’s in the regs. They specify shotgun and muzzleloader only

And I agree with you on the ofah. It’s sad that some people have such unrealistic expectations of an Ontario organization with 100,000 or so members that they discount them completely and don’t appreciate what they have done for us
 
Ignore the haters OP. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with trying. I wouldn’t get too optimistic, but you never know. The refs are constantly changing to evolve with modern times and technology. If there are certain WMUs where deer numbers are hard to control, then a change like this might help tip the balance.

In addition to the points you put forward, I’d also elevate the economic impact. First, many folks would go out and buy a new rifle. I’d be first in line. Second, you’d see a lot more guys in the woods in southern Ontario, and more money spent on all the incidentals. If you read through https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...ever-choose-to-use-a-shotgun-for-deer-hunting you’ll see there’s a ton of folks that would likely take to the woods if they could use straight walled cartridges.
 
flyinlead said:
It would be nice if the OFAH could defeat the federal liberal monster of gun control, I honestly wish they could but it may not be a realistic expectation. More action would be nice, I do agree on that.
These provincial hunting regulations however I would see as much more in their realm. (And they have by the way gotten Sunday gun hunt approval in most municipalities. Which is a lot of work because they’ve had to lobby each individual municipality)
On another note I just searched the Ontario fish and wildlife conservation act, and the set fines list for the act, and I cannot find this shotguns only law anywhere. Does anybody know where this falls under?
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In Ottawa it falls under a city discharge bylaw.
 
flyinlead said:
It would be nice if the OFAH could defeat the federal liberal monster of gun control, I honestly wish they could but it may not be a realistic expectation. More action would be nice, I do agree on that.
These provincial hunting regulations however I would see as much more in their realm. (And they have by the way gotten Sunday gun hunt approval in most municipalities. Which is a lot of work because they’ve had to lobby each individual municipality)
On another note I just searched the Ontario fish and wildlife conservation act, and the set fines list for the act, and I cannot find this shotguns only law anywhere. Does anybody know where this falls under?
Click to expand...

Check the start dates for deer season. In those dates you will see a listing for "shotgun, bows and muzzle loaders" (notice no rifles?) Its not a straightforward way to show it but thats what you gotta look at.
 
I forgot

Get rid of the separate controlled weeks and open it up for a month. Actually would give more time for guys to hunt on weekends

Here there is the orange army and any deer goes as long as they shoot more than their neighbours. And they’ve only got 6 days to do it
 
I hunt in purely residential areas and a big no to rifles for me. We in the local area have relatives that started the "Muzzleloader only" seasons back in the 80's and had to fight with the MNR in the early 2000's to keep shotguns out. Many of the local farmers were adamant "Bring in shotguns and no one hunts"

One shot is far less noticeable than what happens over in Lambton county where I live. Second hunt is in a week and next Monday morning the pumpkin army arrives. Many out of towners with little, if any, permission. It is never one shot, always three, dump the gun and spray and pray. Half mile down the road, the county line, muzzleloader only, hardly notice a thing. Neighbour who owns property on both sides noted he finds way more dead deer while combining in the shotgun zone than the other non shotgun area.

Long and short someone cutting loose with a straight walled rifle is not going to do local deer hunting any favours in Southern Ontario. I also have no issue with using a properly setup, sited in shotgun to deer hunt. Clowns that grab a bird gun, a box of buckshot or slugs and jump out on one road, trespass or use the railroad tracks for egress are the ones I have issues.
 
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