Straight wall cartridges in shotun only deer zones?
- Thread starter flyinlead
- Start date
Just another season like they do in USA to mix things up, we already have a separate bow, youth and senior season in bc in most/all management units.
I am not talking about a restriction due to geography or populated areas
Because we’re our own worst enemies.
We need to support any and all legal means of take. Otherwise we end up undermining each other instead of focusing on advancing hunting opportunities for future generations.
I dunno either, why he would willingly make hunting season as convoluted and screwed up, as it is elsewhere.
We have it pretty darn good here, and really don't need anyone subdividing out the seasons by choice of weapon, given that I the vast majority of the province, you can pick and choose how you want to hunt, and mostly, if you have any ambition at all, you can do so without ever seeing another person away from the actual roads you drove in on.
Y'know, you are making a case for pretty much doing away with the Shotgun as a separate tool to be given it's own season.
If you have a scoped, rifled barrel, capable of reaching out 300 yards accurately, you have pretty much bypassed the reason there was a separate area and season offered up to the shotgunners in the first place.
This is a great idea and something I have mulled over in the stand a few times. The categorization that Ontario currently uses is ridiculous. Muzzleloaders that are as good as any center fire out to ranges well past what most shotguns can manage, crossbows in the same category as traditional bows, a caliber restriction that completely ignores that caliber doesn't actually govern anything about how reasonable or dangerous a round can be in terms of energy and travel.
The problem is enforcement. I'm a reloader. I could make any one of the center fires I reload for perfectly reasonable for the hunting I do in Southern Ontario, but how do you prove that or in the case of the MNR, monitor that. Don't forget the COs aren't nearly as up on this stuff as gun nuts are unless they happen to be gun nuts in there own right on their own time. I guess all I am trying to say is that any new rule to replace the arbitrary old rules is also going to be arbitrary. And I don't know the solution to that particular problem. Personally I am a freedom guy so I'd error on allowing legislation that governs the amount and place of harvest but not the method. Fill your tag how you want and when someone inevitably dies in the big city because someone way out in the farmland shot their 300 RUM into the air from a tree stand then punish that idiot with the full force of the law. Society isn't very willing to accept the negative consequences of real life though so I doubt I'd get support for that one.
So the fact I can hunt with a scoped modern muzzleloader and kill a great old whitetail at 300 yds but can't hunt with a .357 mag, 44 mag or a 45-70 with a nice light trapdoor level load here in Southern Ontario is ludicrous and I will get behind any attempt to rectify that imbalance. Not sure how to tackle it though with the inherent problems of legislation and human stupidity.
It’s WMUs that have shotgun/muzzle loaders only for big game (mostly deer) that I took what the poster meant.
Doing away with shotgun/muzzleloading only WMUs would be ideal. I have been successful as a shotgun hunter, but I trust my abilities with a rifle better...YMMV, just my personal preference; so it’s a move that I see making sense.
That is what you got from my post?
Thanks for your insight but your perception of the real advantages of a crossbow over a traditional longbow as an example has very little to do with the conversation regardless of how much you exaggerate them or not.
Thanks for the example on one of the key themes I did post about however.
While pedantically correct that doesn't actually change the spirit of the idea that current regulatory divisions are pretty silly on their face given the capability of modern examples in each of the arbitrary categories.
Maybe, but he was specifically listing "shotgun seasons" which Ontario doesn't have. Regarding the SG/MZ seasons it has to do with effective range in densely populated areas. That's not a value judgment on my part, but the odds of convincing MNR/municipalities to ditch it in favor of letting people hunt with stuff that reaches way father out seem pretty unlikely.
That's certainly not all, but it does occur to me that you might misunderstand the logic behind some of the regulations as they're written. Both as they pertain to archery tackle and muzzleloaders. In both cases, it boils down to efficacy.
And “You can’t improve the pump, unless you improve the well first.”
In some places, the “well” is overflowing, so adding straight walls, or a few specific short range rifle calibers might be an appropriate improvement to the “pump”. But in most WMUs, I don’t think deer populations would support such a change in efficacy, without having to adjust other seasons to accommodate for it.
KJ
(Definitely not a biologist)
I think you might need an education in the capabilities of slug guns and modern archery and muzzleloader equipment.
Anyways, the rules are silly and I'm not getting into a trolling match about it. I support the OPs idea. In the area where I farm we are discussing starting to cull deer under protection of property rather than hunting them. There is a very real crop impact. It is all besides the point as the rules fail to recognize how much the gap has closed between a nice top end muzzleloader and other implements. Both are reasonable deer hunting tools in my area, one is allowed by the rules and one is not.
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I also support the OP's idea. Places that can support a shotgun season can more than likely also support straightwalls being used along side them. But the idea that archery tackle or muzzle loaders have an equivalant efficacy rate isn't borne out either by stats or just by looking at it objectively.
As I've previously said, I like the idea. But straightwall isn't going to improve efficacy over a slug gun assuming you're running them in tandem. Running them separately could potentially be really bad news for a province looking at a potential CWD outbreak, and already decreasing populations. It's easier to just give out additional tags where required like they do in some of the western Ontario WMU's.
Well you are woefully out of date with archery or muzzleloaders or you don't understand what efficacy means. In either case the answer is for you is more education on the specifics of the stats or objective analysis.
