Best HD option in .223?

[Still alive]

You're correct. However that video is in a safe, simulated situation but he still didn't aim and got two on the head, I believe. The guy is a decent shooter too.

The decent shooter will have a decent understanding of his gun as well as training. There’s this thing called muscle memory if you train enough. At close distances, any well trained shooter can get hits on target. A flash sight picture is all he may get or need.


You said “ a normal person under stress” which I take to mean NOT a decent shooter who has trained. Also, legally speaking, would you want to tell the prosecutor that you aimed to the best of your ability, or you just pointed and fired? Especially if you had hit an innocent during the situation?

 

[shawn]

You're not aiming at the head. You're covering the body, so the only reference you have now is the head. You get it?

Nope you are still wrong

You are covering some of the body, even at 15-20 your hands and gun wont cover all the body leaving only the head, your own pic you posted proved you wrong.

There is no way you are not trolling, this is getting sad

Shawn

 

[PinaKaleada]

So let me get this straight

You think he made those shots from muscle memory right?

Shawn

Yes thats what I think he did.

 

[shawn]

So when I'm willing to get down to details to explain the mechanics of sight picture and POI, you say I'm precise and dont have a real grasp. Great. lol

You may be willing but your understanding is just not there. Sorry to burst your bubble but the difference between POA and POI and sight over bore at 5m out of a pistol is literally nothing. Claiming you have to aim up and only have the head for reference at 5m is beyond retarded

Shawn

 

[PinaKaleada]

Nope you are still wrong

You are covering some of the body, even at 15-20 your hands and gun wont cover all the body leaving only the head, your own pic you posted proved you wrong.

There is no way you are not trolling, this is getting sad

Shawn

If you're aiming for the center of mass, it's more than 2/3 of the body. Dude I did the math/geometry with you, remember?

Even if your POI and POA is exactly the same, it's still 2/3.

For a glock, POA of front dot has to be covering the POI. You get it?

 

[shawn]

Yes thats what I think he did.

When he was building this muscle memory on the range was he using his sights?

Shawn

 

[Still alive]

When he was building this muscle memory on the range was he using his sights?

Shawn

Bingo!

 

[PinaKaleada]

When he was building this muscle memory on the range was he using his sights?

Shawn

EXACTLY. BINGO.

And thats what I posted wayyyyy back. You build your muscle memory, so that when you point your gun, it's exactly where it should be, and you wouldn't need to use your sights.

I said wayyyyy back at Post #55 to:

1.) Practice a consistent grip and have a good memory of how a good grip feels like
2.) Raise your pistol to eye level. Is the sight naturally aligned? If not, try again until it does
3.) Now do this with live round and recoil. It really isn't difficult to point and shoot a torso target at room distances.

Thats what is it. Practice enough, you can point-and-shoot no problem.

 

[Still alive]

EXACTLY. BINGO.

And thats what I posted wayyyyy back. You build your muscle memory, so that when you point your gun, it's exactly where it should be, and you wouldn't need to use your sights.

But you’re talking about a “ decent shooter”. What about the “ normal guy”? Would you recommend a novice type person with a handgun at 3am to point and shoot at someone 5m away?

I have seen so many shooters draw a pistol wrong, to the point of not even pointing it downrange, ok, not quite! I can see this being real bad at 3am and point shooting.

 

[PinaKaleada]

But you’re talking about a “ decent shooter”. What about the “ normal guy”? Would you recommend a novice type person with a handgun at 3am to point and shoot at someone 5m away?

Normal guy, you need to practice this:
1.) Practice a consistent grip and have a good memory of how a good grip feels like
2.) Raise your pistol to eye level. Is the sight naturally aligned? If not, try again until it does
3.) Now do this with live round and recoil. It really isn't difficult to point and shoot a torso target at room distances.

It doesn't take long for the "normal guy" to be able to do this naturally at 5m. Now anything beyond that you do need to take a moment to aim.

 

[shawn]

EXACTLY. BINGO.

And thats what I posted wayyyyy back. You build your muscle memory, so that when you point your gun, it's exactly where it should be, and you wouldn't need to use your sights.

So now you are claiming he built muscle memory using his sights on the range, but when using that muscle memory in force on force he decided to take the time and mental effort to over ride the part of the muscle memory he built to use his sights, to not use them.

Or like nearly any psychologist will say is he used his sights but did not remember it, just like he didn't remember bringing the gun up or pulling the trigger. You just have proven you own argument incorrect LOL

Shawn

 

[shawn]

Normal guy, you need to practice this:
1.) Practice a consistent grip and have a good memory of how a good grip feels like
2.) Raise your pistol to eye level. Is the sight naturally aligned? If not, try again until it does
3.) Now do this with live round and recoil. It really isn't difficult to point and shoot a torso target at room distances.

You are literally describing what is called a flash sight picture and what aiming with sights is

How in your weird world is this not using your sights to aim?
How are you seeing if the sight is naturally aligned?

Shawn

 

[Still alive]

Did you learn this technique somewhere? Why are you so reluctant to try for your sights? Your #2 point asks if your sights naturally aligned. So why not just use them since you’re looking that way anyways?

We need that train derailment meme. This thread has gone waaay off track!

 

[PinaKaleada]

So now you are claiming he built muscle memory using his sights on the range, but when using that muscle memory in force on force he decided to take the time and mental effort to over ride the part of the muscle memory he built to use his sights, to not use them.

Or like nearly any psychologist will say is he used his sights but did not remember it, just like he didn't remember bringing the gun up or pulling the trigger. You just have proven you own argument incorrect LOL

Shawn

With a lack of a better term, you might be proposing he also had "vision memory" on top of muscle memory. As in, he also had the instinct to take a look at the sights.

I would disagree. I believe when in danger, your brain doesn't divert your eyes from the threat to refocus on sights. It's pure muscle memory. Point and shoot.

 

[PinaKaleada]

You are literally describing what is called a flash sight picture and what aiming with sights is

How in your weird world is this not using your sights to aim?
How are you seeing if the sight is naturally aligned?

Shawn

I believe that in danger, your brain doesn't allow your vision to divert focus away from threat easily to refocus onto the sights. Especially if threat is very close.

Similar to why people never close one eye to aim. Your brain simply will make sure you have your eyes on threat 100% of the time.

However, something like a red dot that can be superimposed would be different. Red dots dont require your eyes to refocus, unlike pistol sights.

 

[Still alive]

I believe when in danger, your brain doesn't divert your eyes from the threat to refocus on sights. It's pure muscle memory. Point and shoot.

Yes, it’s muscle memory but the memory brings the sights to your eyes, get your flash sight picture then you shoot. Not the other way around.

 

[PinaKaleada]

Yes, it’s muscle memory but the memory brings the sights to your eyes, get your flash sight picture then you shoot. Not the other way around.

Again I don't disagree that would be the ideal thing to do. I just suspect things would be a little different with subpar lighting and movements.

 

[shawn]

Dude you really need get some training and do some research

Where does this muscle memory put the sights when this is happening? Between your eye and the target.

Whether or not you get hard front sight focus is irrelevant, you are still aiming with the sights. You have these weird preconceptions that are simply not supported by science or reality. It like you started to get the info on this but started on chapter 5 skipping all before and ending at chapter 8 ignoring all after.

Shawn

 

[Uisge]

I’d argue you should close your eyes. You probably won’t be wearing eye pro and you could get something in your eye, wouldn’t hurt to plug one of your ears (your favourite).

 

[shawn]

So in the 150 posts so far we have finally establish that you do use you sights. But you feel, based on nothing and youtube vids, that your wont use them so you have declared them unpractical. Contrary to all competent instructors and courses in modern gun fighting, as well as all police military etc.

Shawn