Trudeau and Blair BAN 12 Gauge and 10 Gauge SHOTGUNS!

A_Modest_Proposal said:
A lot of words to say he made it more comfortable to shoot. If the action will handle it the bolt can be removed and the round inserted just like a breech loader. Earlier post shows a break action with an off the shelf .50bmg round jammed in and taped to spacing being fired out of a break action. All that needs be done is set it up as a sabot. Adding a heavy barrel is not wizardry and common yet it's absence will not prevent firing. Off the shelf guns without the added weight and stiffness will cause likely permanent shoulder injuries but will function. These kinds of rounds are meant to be fired out of guns weighing on average >2x a Savage 210 and include massive brakes to manage the recoil. A stock 210 would likely put the shooter out of commission on the first shot.

"I put mine in a Savage 210 12 ga action with heavy barrel and stock." - from the post

The main point is the action defines the possibilities of the gun, barrels come in all shapes and sizes.
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Sure. If you have a Savage 210 with a heavy barrel and can breach load and fire that wildcat round and reach 10k joules. THAT particular shotgun is banned. All other Savage 210’s with regular barrels that haven’t been tested with this round are still legal.
 
CosmiC10R said:
I think you need to read the opinions and realize it was no where that cut and dry...
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Of course it’s not. But owning a Remington 870 12 GA or Mossberg Duck shotgun will not be prohibited because someone else modified a specific bolt action Savage 210 shotgun to fire a 50 BMG that reached over 10k joules.
 
Paul_1982 said:
Sure. If you have a Savage 210 with a heavy barrel and can breach load and fire that wildcat round and reach 10k joules. THAT particular shotgun is banned. All other Savage 210’s with regular barrels that haven’t been tested with this round are still legal.
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What part of the barrel isn't the determinant factor don't you understand? The slug from this round would quite clearly fire in a 12ga. Some weaker shotguns may explode but it's proven that some will not. If you are trying to argue that the barrel would simply explode in a cartoony fashion and the slug would disintegrate, adding a sleeve is a simple trip to the hardware store for some steel pipe but its honestly easier to rebarrel and you would know that if you had ever taken one apart. It's laughable but I'll entertain it. Had I the inclination to waste money at a time like this I'd buy a 210, manufacture the round, and bolt it to a tree somewhere in the woods as an example.
 
A_Modest_Proposal said:
What part of the barrel isn't the determinant factor don't you understand? The slug from this round would quite clearly fire in a 12ga. Some weaker shotguns may explode but it's proven that some will not. If you are trying to argue that the barrel would simply explode in a cartoony fashion and the slug would disintegrate, adding a sleeve is a simple trip to the hardware store for some steel pipe but its honestly easier to rebarrel and you would know that if you had ever taken one apart. It's laughable but I'll entertain it. Had I the inclination to waste money at a time like this I'd buy a 210, manufacture the round, and bolt it to a tree somewhere in the woods as an example.
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I already agreed that the round would fire in A 12 GA shotgun (one that had several modifications). There’s far more that needs to be done to prove it will fire in any more than that one.
 
Paul_1982 said:
I already agreed that the round would fire in A 12 GA shotgun (one that had several modifications). There’s far more that needs to be done to prove it will fire in any more than that one.
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NO modifications are required to put that round in front of a hammer and have it strike the primer, this is proven. You clearly aren't even aware of the modifications that WERE done. As I have stated, even if I needed to rebarrel a shotgun to handle the working pressure I could do so in an hour or less with chromoly tubing.
 
A_Modest_Proposal said:
NO modifications are required to put that round in front of a hammer and have it strike the primer, this is proven. You clearly aren't even aware of the modifications that WERE done. As I have stated, even if I needed to rebarrel a shotgun to handle the working pressure I could do so in an hour or less with chromoly tubing.
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R v Hasselwander stated the firearm had to be capable of being quickly, readily and with relative ease converted. If the owner doesn’t have a barrel that can safely discharge the round- then they will not be in possession of a prohibited firearm.
 
Paul_1982 said:
R v Hasselwander stated the firearm had to be capable of being quickly, readily and with relative ease converted. If the owner doesn’t have a barrel that can safely discharge the round- then they will not be in possession of a prohibited firearm.
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Steel tube, slide over barrel. OiC doesn't place requirements on number of shots the gun must sustain.
 
A_Modest_Proposal said:
Steel tube, slide over barrel. OiC doesn't place requirements on number of shots the gun must sustain.
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There’s no point going back and forth. I’ve yet to see anything outside of a non-commercial, home manufactured round fired in a heavily modified 12 GA shotgun that went over 10k joules.

I’ve seen another video where a 50 BMG round with tape around it was fired as well, but no info on the grains of the projectile and the recorded speed to judge if it reached over 10k joules.

I don’t have a steel tube to slide over a shotgun barrel, as I’m sure not many do. I’ll agree the modified Savage 210 shotgun could definitely be prohibited. No further evidence has been posted which would indicate any other shotgun would be as well.
 
Paul_1982 said:
There’s no point going back and forth. I’ve yet to see anything outside of a non-commercial, home manufactured round fired in a heavily modified 12 GA shotgun that went over 10k joules.

I’ve seen another video where a 50 BMG round with tape around it was fired as well, but no info on the grains of the projectile and the recorded speed to judge if it reached over 10k joules.

I don’t have a steel tube to slide over a shotgun barrel, as I’m sure not many do. I’ll agree the modified Savage 210 shotgun could definitely be prohibited. No further evidence has been posted which would indicate any other shotgun would be as well.
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Well #### son, you got me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufCD4YdtkgQ&list=PLRgRlb1O9k4bys80xZXQU30Z1nqoAJb8J&index=134

+1 to shawn
 
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Paul_1982 said:
Lol I argue like a Liberal. Good one. Next you can call me a snowflake.

Here you managed to find someone who worked up a custom load with custom brass to make it 178 joules over 10k, using an H&R Ultra Slug Hunter (I believe unmodified?).

So there you go. Send that off to Blair!
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"Brass is made by RMC. They are $10 a pop" - Richard f
commercial primers.
commercial powder
commercial projectile.

I believe that qualifies. Though you could go back to before you piped up and read where I stated that the round was not an over the counter purchase.
Your argument is now close to approaching the equivalent of "purchasing the parts to make a prohibited firearm makes it not prohibited due to the necessity of assembly".
I don't have any intent to email Blair anything, he won't determine if the charges stick.
Never the less I don't need to keep doing the easy research for you, snowflake.
 
A_Modest_Proposal said:
"Brass is made by RMC. They are $10 a pop" - Richard f
commercial primers.
commercial powder
commercial projectile.

I believe that qualifies. Though you could go back to before you piped up and read where I stated that the round was not an over the counter purchase.
Your argument is now close to approaching the equivalent of "purchasing the parts to make a prohibited firearm makes it not prohibited due to the necessity of assembly".
I don't have any intent to email Blair anything, he won't determine if the charges stick.
Never the less I don't need to keep doing the easy research for you, snowflake.
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I do have to thank you Paul_1982. This argument has helped me determine these three important facts;

1. A 12ga loading exists whereby all the components are manufactured for the purpose of resale, and when combined exceed 10kj energy measured at the muzzle.
2. All 12 gauge shotguns able to chamber a 3 1/2" shot shell, including ~$100 walmart smoothbore specials, are capable of firing this round.
3. All firearms "capable of discharging a projectile with a muzzle energy greater than 10,000 Joules" are prohibited devices via OiC.

I honestly didn't care prior. If the ban fails I'll probably build one.

It's also worth noting for those who own 3" or less marked shotguns, they may still chamber and fire a 3 1/2" shell. No shotgun is off the hook until proven otherwise.

Video for those interested.

 
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Whereas the Governor in Council is not of the opinion that any thing prescribed to be a prohibited firearm or a prohibited device, in the Annexed Regulations, is reasonable for use in Canada for hunting or sporting purposes;
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So if the OIC unambiguously bans 12ga shotguns as not reasonable for use in Canada for hunting or sporting purposes, then the CCFR Charter challenge would appear reasonable. Of course they could come up with a better written and more vindictive OIC later on.
 
Juster said:
So if the OIC unambiguously bans 12ga shotguns as not reasonable for use in Canada for hunting or sporting purposes, then the CCFR Charter challenge would appear reasonable. Of course they could come up with a better written and more vindictive OIC later on.
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The OiC is almost too malicious to be born of ignorance. Banning anti-material rifles that would only be useful in countering an oppressive regime, and not in any way preventing civilian criminal activities, doesn't appear to be of interest to public safety... Don your tin foil hats! :stirthepot2:
 
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A_Modest_Proposal said:
The OiC is almost too malicious to be born of ignorance. Banning anti-material rifles that would only be useful in countering an oppressive regime and not in any way preventing civilian criminal activities, doesn't appear to be of interest to public safety... Don your tin foil hats! :stirthepot2:
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Something something "great leap forward".
 
This forum is useless, arguing about the most useless topics. It’s clear 20mm is the law and is clear that any firearms with a measurable point being a larger diameter than 20 mm are now prohib, this is not I that has said that, it is thee law that has been passed. You must take laws at literal value. The guy in North Battleford that’s on that river in Egypt needs to get his head out of his dupa
 
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