LWRC SABR rifle pics

I am amazed by the one member here who argues that this is an AR10 derivative and that it should be restricted.
I know I had said it would be restricted as an AR10 but I hope I'm wrong. I really hope this sucker is non-restricted but a lot of things have been screwed over by the dicks at the RCMP lab.

Sound like you guys have your stuff together in that regards and I hope this bad boy comes in non-restricted.
 
I know I had said it would be restricted as an AR10 but I hope I'm wrong. I really hope this sucker is non-restricted but a lot of things have been screwed over by the dicks at the RCMP lab.

Sound like you guys have your stuff together in that regards and I hope this bad boy comes in non-restricted.

The original AR-10's in semi auto ARE non-restricted, they are not AR-15 variants. This too is a new rifle of new design, with no parts interchangeability with AR's, and has an extremely strong argument to be non-restricted. Think of it as a VZ-58/AK situation. They look alike but by forensic analysis of the RCMP the mechanics and lineage are most important.
 
The original AR-10's in semi auto ARE non-restricted, they are not AR-15 variants. This too is a new rifle of new design, with no parts interchangeability with AR's, and has an extremely strong argument to be non-restricted. Think of it as a VZ-58/AK situation. They look alike but by forensic analysis of the RCMP the mechanics and lineage are most important.
I'm well aware of all the details. How ever, the AR10 is classed as a variant of the AR15. Anything is possible, that's all I'm saying.
 
With this one post, you became one of my favorite arms manufacturers bar none.

We are in the middle of durability testing with the LRIPS. Before we went to a side cocker we did nearly 18 months of durability testing. Suppressed it went longer than any other semi auto I know of and would have gone longer if it did not start sleeting. The protos went about 20K before accuracy slightly deteriorated. There were no significant problems with the gun. We are changing the rail slightly to deal with some mirage when the gun gets really hot. So we started. One gun is going to SWC for them to put through SOTIC as a direct comparison to the M110. This is just market research for them which they do all the time.

The comments about rails, and 9mm, and PE90's are all pretty funny. Obviously the writer knows nothing about the UNS, or PEQ 2. You likely do not have these items, but there are other advantages to rails. We will make a handguard model, but not for a while as this configuration is most in demand.

The advantages of rails, especially on piston guns that you do not account for are: They are an excellent heat sink, they free float the barrel, they provide superior ventillation from convection cooling, allow end user configuration, they are extremely lightweight.

I can tell you that you are dead wrong about the Canadian Forces and their use of tubes vs rails. At least at the tip of the spear. Just because they are Canadian, doesn't mean they do not desire all of the advantages I list above. They get their SDMR's plenty hot too.

SMG's are dead, PDW's are dead in all but very specific circumstances. Please do not argue with me....we spend our days mfg and selling firearms to end users and those with SMG's or PDW's leave them where they belong...in the armoury.

I am amazed by the one member here who argues that this is an AR10 derivative and that it should be restricted. I can't really find words for that guy. As we configure the Canadian model of this rifle and get our ducks in a row, I can tell you this should not be deemed restricted, especially in light of the sig rifles being deemed un-restricted. It is a new design from toes to t**s despite how it looks.

I am doing this because I am Canadian. Not because I think it will be a home run money making venture in Canada. The market is very small compared to the US, and I doubt we will be able to keep up with demand here for the guns. This is something I personally want to do, so for Mr. Expert who would make a great anti-gun bureaucrat, take your negative defeatist comments and store them in your backside.

Just to give you an example, RSR which is 1 US distributer sells 5500 bushmaster rifles a month. That is one brand, one distributer.

The Teleportation Device picture is really tongue and cheek. I know that does not play well in uber politically correct markets like Canada, but it seems to me in the right hands in a combat zone, it is accurate inshallah.

The military market for a relatively lightweight, reliable accurate .308 SASS is large worldwide. Here in the US, the USMC is returning their M110's and threaten to resolicit an SASS. The real role for an SASS is a number 2 gun in a sniper team, the number 1 guy with a .338 Lap Mag. In special forces circles, the sniper/assaulter currently carries 2 weapons. An M4 to fight and clear to overwatch, and an M110 for overwatch/sniping/counter sniping. This allows him to carry a 12" assualter with the SASS upper on his back. One platform, one type of magazine, one type of ammo. He does not stick out as a sniper in the battlefield. 12" barrels do not optimize the .308 cartridge. For the assaulter piece, it is MORE than adequate though.
 
I'm well aware of all the details. How ever, the AR10 is classed as a variant of the AR15. Anything is possible, that's all I'm saying.

No, it's not, .308 variants of the AR15 today marketed as AR10's are classed as AR15 variants. :) The AR10 predates the AR15, and is not a variant of it and is not lumped into the AR15 variant pile as a direct result.

Furthermore, this rifle shares commonality with neither the AR10 or the AR15, and simply shares its caliber with the AR10. The way it looks is not what the RCMP will look at, and surprisingly they have been very objective in contemporary times when classifying firearms and accessories. Referrence the 10 round RRA pistol AR mags and the letter from the RCMP supporting them, and the non-restricted status of PE90's and VZ58's. The PE90's an excellent example, with the SIG 55X series being prohibited, but the RCMP recognizing the PE90's not a variant. This rifle is even further detached from the AR15 than the PE90 is from the SIG 55X. As much as we like to rag on the federal agencies, the RCMP's actually being objective, and this rifle should not by any means be restricted by the letter of the law.

Continuing to push that it should be, or might be, is not only misguided and wrong it certainly doesn't help us as a community. I'm not saying we should suppress any comments or criticisms not favourable, but I'm saying the last thing we need is everybody chiming "It's restricted it's an AR." when it's not true and having another situation like the "bullpups are prohibited" fiasco.
 
I didn't mean to be harsh, but I want a fair evaluation, and with the public making comments such as this I am not sure that will be possible.

So comment what you will on the rifles themselves, but leave the analysis for the RCMP.
 
No, it's not, .308 variants of the AR15 today marketed as AR10's are classed as AR15 variants. :) The AR10 predates the AR15, and is not a variant of it and is not lumped into the AR15 variant pile as a direct result.
Stop putting words in my mouth. I'm not saying this rifle is an AR10 variant. I am not advocating it should be restricted as an AR15 variant. All I'm saying is the RCMP have made stupid decisions before and they may do it again. They made the AR10 restricted as an AR15, why wouldn't they do the same here? That's all I'm saying.

Don't make me the villain for stating what we don't want to hear. This rifle is not an AR15 or AR10 variant. This I know.

If you must continue, the towns folk are gathering to the right, you must provide your own pitchfork and flaming torch.
 
I am doing this because I am Canadian. Not because I think it will be a home run money making venture in Canada. The market is very small compared to the US, and I doubt we will be able to keep up with demand here for the guns. This is something I personally want to do, so for Mr. Expert who would make a great anti-gun bureaucrat, take your negative defeatist comments and store them in your backside.

If you distribute them here in Canada, your words above, just cemented two sales. If we had more guys like you, the Canadian recreational firearms community wouldn't be in the state we're in right now. Good on 'ya and hope to see more pics once the production configuration is finalized!:bigHug:
 
The comments about rails, and 9mm, and PE90's are all pretty funny. Obviously the writer knows nothing about the UNS, or PEQ 2. You likely do not have these items, but there are other advantages to rails. We will make a handguard model, but not for a while as this configuration is most in demand.

The advantages of rails, especially on piston guns that you do not account for are: They are an excellent heat sink, they free float the barrel, they provide superior ventillation from convection cooling, allow end user configuration, they are extremely lightweight.
It's a common human trait to try to justify one's own purchase decisions by deriding other products on the market. Epoxy7 just bought a DPMS, and probably can't afford another $2000+ rifle, so he's trying to convince himself and others that nothing in the world could beat his non-railed, direct impingement AR-10. I don't think you will ever change his mind, so you're probably better off just ignoring his comments.

I have no doubt that the vast majority of people here appreciate your efforts to export this rifle to Canada. If it proves to be a high quality, reliable weapon, I'm sure it will sell well.
 
Ill buy one of these rifles..but it would be nice if it had a rails and non rails option.. I would only want a top M1913 for a scope mount.. or maybe a lower one for a harris. This is a timely piece as I was just trying to figure out whether I should buy an AR10 or not...DPMS isnt an option as Im not sinking cash into somethign with a junk reputation. I think if your rifle came in around $2500 it would sell well.. especially if its non restricted.

No collection is complete without alittle 7.62 brick busting action in it...
 
48th Highlander Texas,

First of all if you go back to page 3 I mentioned what I believed were the pros/cons of the rails. Yes I included ventilation as a pro. I take a fairly methodical approach when I research and buy firearms. Pros/cons of each including price. Please don't dismiss me as a joke because other people twisted what I have said. Especially considering I am definately a possible future purchaser of this product.

Another mistake. I didn't bother responding the first time I noticed it, however you've carried it on so it's becomming internet gospel when it's incorrect. I was referring to the FN P90, not the Swiss Arms/SIG PE-90, which would make a crap entry weapon. So please don't laugh at my thoughts on that when you guys have mistaken which firearm I mentioned. I also mentioned the round which wasn't 5.56 or .223 so that should have tipped people off about which weapon I was referring to.

Capp325.
I just bought a PE-90 Swiss Arms Black Target. By the time these LWRC rifles come out I will easily be able to afford one if I want one. That's not an issue. It's not a matter of one or the other. That being said if the new product doesn't offer significantly more then I won't add to the collection.

Armedsask
Has a good point. If this firearm is restricted, which is a possibility considering how retarded our firearms laws are. Then a lot of the advantages just went down the toilet. Don't trash him for that. It's a very legitimate concern and was worth mentioning. Hopefully it won't be classified as that, and there does seem to be a very real hope that it will be non-restricted. :D

Now back on topic.

I love the left side placement of the cocking handle. The piston system is good for reliability. I do agree with that. Originally I thought maybe it was a liability then I realized I was mistaken. If it's not restricted then excellent. Good choice on the stock, I like it. Overall a lot of positive things. However...

Rails on this type of rifle. Not for me. On a shorty 9mm or .223 yup. I like them. I've already listed my thoughts on that. It comes down to personal preference and my uses for this type of rifle.

The real holly grail and deal maker for me is accuracy. I'm not going into Afghanistan and the range isn't a very harsh environment so accuracy is king for me with quality, reliability and price being close behind.

48th Highlander Texas
Of course I appreciate any new product available to the public and am interested in it. However I'm not a fan boy like Ardent. I always make the best business decision based on the information available. If the LWRC rifle meets my criteria, I'll buy one. If not I'm happy with what I have. By the way I think you should send Ardent the "official" LWRC knee pads for his die hard loyalty. :D
 
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It is not as easy because they do not use the AR type barrel nut ( because this rifle is not an AR!) To put handguards on it needs a new way to retain the handguard and possibly handgurads different from the existing AR furniture. Most people will want free floating anyway and toss the plastic handguard anyways -if you are buying a 2000 dollars rifle a 300 dollars rail is immaterial to the whole purchase cost.


Ill buy one of these rifles..but it would be nice if it had a rails and non rails option.. I would only want a top M1913 for a scope mount.. or maybe a lower one for a harris. This is a timely piece as I was just trying to figure out whether I should buy an AR10 or not...DPMS isnt an option as Im not sinking cash into somethign with a junk reputation. I think if your rifle came in around $2500 it would sell well.. especially if its non restricted.

No collection is complete without alittle 7.62 brick busting action in it...
 
I am doing this because I am Canadian. Not because I think it will be a home run money making venture in Canada. The market is very small compared to the US, and I doubt we will be able to keep up with demand here for the guns. This is something I personally want to do, so for Mr. Expert who would make a great anti-gun bureaucrat, take your negative defeatist comments and store them in your backside.

Dude... next time you are back in Canada, I want to buy you a beer....:D
 
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