Ethics scenario

[captonion]

I see ethics brought up in many treads so I got a scenario for you..

You shoot, arrow a deer/moose etc near last legal shooting time, animal runs and you can't find it that night. Go back in the morning and find the animal a short distance where you left off the night before. You find that wolves found your animal before you did and ravaged it. Do you cancel your tag or hunt on?

 

[45ACPKING]

I see ethics brought up in many treads so I got a scenario for you..

You shoot, arrow a deer/moose etc near last legal shooting time, animal runs and you can't find it that night. Go back in the morning and find the animal a short distance where you left off the night before. You find that wolves found your animal before you did and ravaged it. Do you cancel your tag or hunt on?

been in this situation with a friend on a moose hunt near 20 years ago now. He shot the bull at 9am and we found it in the fading hours of daylight, far from the roads and we were deep in grizzly country and had spotted a few bears in the area that week. My friend, a long time hunter and a mentor at the time got me to help him build a big pile of wood scrap from the clear cut around and over the carcass after we finished dressing it out. He punched his tag as soon as we had found it and after the work was done we headed back to camp.
In the am, we headed back in and as we approached the pile of wood that hid his moose everything looked fine until I got right up to it. As I arrived, senses on high watching for any sign of Grizz..... out from the pile rockets this single black wolf. Me and George emptied and reloaded our rifles trying to drop that thing and never did hit it.
The damage to the moose was incredible and there had to be more than one wolf feeding off it that night. The entire rear quarters were eaten.... I couldn't believe it.
George was so pissed off but he took it in stride and we salvaged what we could from the animal.
Being a newish hunter at the time I said " bummer you already cut your tag man" and George scolded me and gave me his own lesson on the situation. Once it's confirmed down, cut your tag. What happens after is all on you.
So two lessons learned that trip.... cut your tag on a confirmed kill ...... and even old seasoned hunters screw up some times LOL

 

[pescador]

yes legally you are obligated to. Once your arrow or bullet hits the animal, that is your animal. wether you recover it or not, you must cut your tag.

 

[Lyallpeder]

yes legally you are obligated to. Once your arrow or bullet hits the animal, that is your animal. wether you recover it or not, you must cut your tag.

Is that a written rule? I’ve never seen that as a written rule in my province.

I would switch to grouse hunting for the rest of my trip. Because I found it, and there was no salvageable meat, I would not continue hunting. If there was any salvageable meat I would take it and tag it.

 

[SomebodyTookMyName]

yes legally you are obligated to. Once your arrow or bullet hits the animal, that is your animal. wether you recover it or not, you must cut your tag.

Ethically, this is where I stand. If you want to "take the high road" as it were, this is the way. Whether you recover it or not, you have killed the animal, and removed it from the population, thus you've filled your allowed quota.

 

[CoonT]

It all depends on the particulars of the situation. Health of the deer herd and performance of the mast crops that year being big considerations.

For me, I'm only hunting on my land, and am very invested in making sure my property is as kick-ass a nature preserve for the next generation, as it is a hunting spot for me now. And now that the ministry has made filling out a questionnaire mandatory for getting a tag, I may not even bother getting one again.

Planting native and heritage species, coupled with extensive labour involved in manually removing invasives (buckthorn, for example).
Erosion control of the creek edge and water level maintenance of the pond.
eradication and control of pests (scraping gypsy moth egg clusters all winter, for example. Tick sweeping of the deer trails being another)
placement of birdhouses and formation of animal habitat piles and boxes. (grouse habitat is a new favorite of mine)
Cleaning up garbage that it looks like people have been scattering throughout the forest for the last hundred years.

All this but some dork bureaucrat with a green hat and rainbow pin can tell me I'm evil for being a crappy tracker...

I'll be filling my tag proper, thanks.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

I had a scenario like this a couple years back. Shot my whitetail at first light. Hit him hard in the open field but he managed to plow into the trees. Could not get on him with a second shot as he ended up in low ground and all I could see was his antlers. I knew I hit him hard and I decided the best thing to do was to wait 20-30 minutes and let him bleed out. I had no worries about tracking him at the time as I knew he was hit hard and he was on a layer of fresh snow from the previous evening. Within about 15 minutes a blizzard came up fast. Hours of searching and we could not find him. Finally called it off as we could not see due to the storm. Went back the next morning and found him due to the ravens. Sure enough he did not go far and we must have walked past him many times during the previous day's search. The only thing remaining was the head and spine. After going back to the truck, F&W happened to roll past. They stopped to ask how the hunt was going. I relayed the scenario. The officer commented that I had shown due diligence but I lost that one and can try to get another. So, legally I had permission to attempt to fill my tag again however morally I could not follow through. I passed up a few beauty bucks and focussed on my other tags.

 

[canadian hunter312]

If you put a bullet or arrow hole in the animal, that's your animal wether you retrieve it or not. Just because a hunter sucks at shooting or tracking it doesn't mean they get to keep shooting animals until they're finally successful.

 

[Evanguy]

your tag allows you to take one animal from that population in that area, if you take an animal, there will be one less in the population, that is what your tag allows but if you don't retrieve the animal, well there is still one less in that population, so id say that's your tag used

 

[CoonT]

your tag allows you to take one animal from that population in that area, if you take an animal, there will be one less in the population, that is what your tag allows but if you don't retrieve the animal, well there is still one less in that population, so id say that's your tag used

Naw. The deer technically remained in the population, and ended up doing what it would have done had you not been there.

If wolves ate the deer, then that's mother nature filling her tag, not you filling yours.


I don't know or care what the law says, as the focus of this thread is the ethics of this situation.



The situation in particular will determine if it's ethical or not. Was your shot bad because you were drunk on stand, or haven't practiced in 5 years? Did you have to cut your tracking time short because you were volunteering at the Childrens hospital that night? Are the wolves in your area endangered while the deer are severely overpopulated? Did you try your best?


Ethics.

 

[FLHTCUI]

I see ethics brought up in many treads so I got a scenario for you..

You shoot, arrow a deer/moose etc near last legal shooting time, animal runs and you can't find it that night. Go back in the morning and find the animal a short distance where you left off the night before. You find that wolves found your animal before you did and ravaged it. Do you cancel your tag or hunt on?

Call the CO's and let them decide......
Rob

 

[pescador]

Ethically, this is where I stand. If you want to "take the high road" as it were, this is the way. Whether you recover it or not, you have killed the animal, and removed it from the population, thus you've filled your allowed quota.

In BC on the Back of my tag it reads "immediately upon killing an animal of this species stated on this license and BEFORE handling the animal, this species license must be cancelled by cutting out and completely removing applicable notches".

so if you live in BC its right on your tag.

it doesnt say: after you get it home or to your truck. etc. it says Immediately and before you even touch it. so yeah i would say legally you have filled your tag if you are in BC.

Ethically i would say you also filled your tag. you took the shot with not a lot of light left, you decided to recover the next day, and unfortunately for you something else got there first, you could have let it walk, ultimately you rolled the dice and it didnt work out. Legally once a projectile leaves your weapon whatever it hits is your responsibility. i dont see how this is any different.

 

[chappy]

in bc you only cut a tag if you recover an animal not shot it. when you went back and found the animal you must cut your tag. no different than if the animal was hanging in your camp and a bear took it you can't hunt for a replacement if you never found the animal you legally could have kept hunting.

 

[todbartell]

I wouldn't cancel my tag, but I would stop hunting for that species for the remainder of the season

 

[9.3mauser]

I see ethics brought up in many treads so I got a scenario for you..

You shoot, arrow a deer/moose etc near last legal shooting time, animal runs and you can't find it that night. Go back in the morning and find the animal a short distance where you left off the night before. You find that wolves found your animal before you did and ravaged it. Do you cancel your tag or hunt on?

Ontario has party hunting, so you can cut your tag and still go out and fill everybody else's.

 

[KodiakHntr]

yes legally you are obligated to. Once your arrow or bullet hits the animal, that is your animal. wether you recover it or not, you must cut your tag.

That is incorrect. You ONLY cut your tag when you have confirmed the animal is dead through recovery. Cutting you tag without having the animal at your feet is improper cancellation and renders your tag null and void.

 

[pescador]

in bc you only cut a tag if you recover an animal not shot it. when you went back and found the animal you must cut your tag. no different than if the animal was hanging in your camp and a bear took it you can't hunt for a replacement if you never found the animal you legally could have kept hunting.

thats probably the most incorrect info i've ever heard. I would argue that if you shot it, regardless of wether you recovered it or not its most likely going to die of its injuries. i bet if you asked a CO none of them would agree with your interpretation. the tag says immediately upon KILLING. not RECOVERING. read the back of your tag and maybe ask a CO. sheesh....

ultimately do what you want but for me if i know i hit it. the tag gets cut.

 

[Runningfool]

thats probably the most incorrect info i've ever heard. I would argue that if you shot it, regardless of wether you recovered it or not its most likely going to die of its injuries. i bet if you asked a CO none of them would agree with your interpretation. the tag says immediately upon KILLING. not RECOVERING. read the back of your tag and maybe ask a CO. sheesh.....

Ethics aside, I would have to say that Chappy and kodiakhntr are correct on the legalities here. The only way you can confirm “killing” the animal is by finding it. Have you been hunting long? I do not mean any disrespect but when I read, “regardless of wether you recovered it or not its most likely going to die of its injuries” I just sort of wonder what kind of experience you are basing your opinions on. You can argue and bet all you want but how could a CO charge you for not cutting your tag if no one can find a dead animal?

 

[KodiakHntr]

thats probably the most incorrect info i've ever heard. I would argue that if you shot it, regardless of wether you recovered it or not its most likely going to die of its injuries. i bet if you asked a CO none of them would agree with your interpretation. the tag says immediately upon KILLING. not RECOVERING. read the back of your tag and maybe ask a CO. sheesh....

ultimately do what you want but for me if i know i hit it. the tag gets cut.

I have to agree with Running, and ask how much experience you have?

If you have a canceled tag and no animal to show for it, a CO will be VERY suspicious of why that would be, ie, did you shoot a 9 point double brow moose and think it was a tri palm or a ten point until after you cut your tag and then got spooked and walked away from it?

The only way to know for certain that you have killed something is to find it and verify that it is dead, by poking it in the blinker with your muzzle (or however you do it).

And I have asked that exact question of multiple CO’s, and that is exactly how they interpret that. Canceled tag and no animal, you did something wrong and they want to find out what that was. A couple of them have said “But if you didn’t find it, how do you know you even hit it? Or if you know you hit it but can’t find it, how do you know it was a mortal wound?”

Do what you like, but be aware that you are wrong. And to be really blunt, the only reason you would cut your tag instead of just stopping hunting for that species (if you feel you killed it but didn’t find it) is because you can’t trust yourself to not shoot another one when the opportunity arises.
Ethics aren’t the things you do when people are watching, ethics are how you govern yourself when nobody is watching.

 

[BlackRam]

Personally I like the rules that they have in Africa; if you draw a single drop of blood, you pay for the animal whether or not it is recovered.

I believe that our laws should be similar; if you draw blood, you cancel your tag, whether or not you recover the animal, or have it scavenged/eaten/stolen by predator/scavengers.
If the animal is eaten or taken over by other wildlife, then the CO's should be consulted and can determine if they will provide a replacement tag if the purpose of the hunt for the meat is for sustenance.

This would make the ethical issue more clear from a regulatory standpoint.