Black Creek Labs AR180 based rifle SVR2 Siberian approved for Non restricted FRT

alvais said:
My hope is that the rest of the shortcomings are going to be squared away in the production rifles. Keen eye btw, I didn't see any of those issues you timestamped.
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As a industry member I've handled a lot of NEA and BCL products and I was not impressed at all with the quality.

Having to assemble a bunch of their firearms left me throwing tools at the wall and screaming at the top of my lungs.

The BCL102 was my final straw with BCL, nothing lined up properly on them and this AR180 disaster is the same.

BCL doesn't care about the end user as long as they get paid, they could improve quality but seem to blatantly refuse to replace worn out machines and careless employees.



I want to fully support Canadian firearm businesses don't get me wrong but with how bad some are good god just close the doors and stop giving the market the middle finger with your garbage products.
 
Grove said:
As a industry member I've handled a lot of NEA and BCL products and I was not impressed at all with the quality.

Having to assemble a bunch of their firearms left me throwing tools at the wall and screaming at the top of my lungs.

The BCL102 was my final straw with BCL, nothing lined up properly on them and this AR180 disaster is the same.

BCL doesn't care about the end user as long as they get paid, they could improve quality but seem to blatantly refuse to replace worn out machines and careless employees.



I want to fully support Canadian firearm businesses don't get me wrong but with how bad some are good god just close the doors and stop giving the market the middle finger with your garbage products.
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Ouch!
 
I'm surprised their new shop's tools have worn out already? Seemed like only yesterday they were showing off their new location and all the fancy new CNC tools.... it's a wonder anyone can make it in production when these fancy tools are worn out in a couple of years... talk about a race to the bottom! Hard to believe really.
 
Can-down said:
I'm surprised their new shop's tools have worn out already? Seemed like only yesterday they were showing off their new location and all the fancy new CNC tools.... it's a wonder anyone can make it in production when these fancy tools are worn out in a couple of years... talk about a race to the bottom! Hard to believe really.
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Easy to wear out a CNC machine if you don't respect the materials you are working with and just keep running large batches through without checking your tooling wear patterns.

Feed rate, insufficient cooling, cutting friction set too high, bad helix and relief angles, and much more can be set wrong causing the huge spread in tolerances with BCL's items.

Back to the Siberian disaster, just look at this.

K71e87v.jpg

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As a machinist I am just freaking out in my head looking at this rifle, I can only imagine what kind of surprises are on the inside that we cannot see.
 
Yeah, I truly don't understand what's going on there. The handguard fit also looks poor. Prototype fine, but that should just mean "not final exact configuration" and not "tossed together."
 
Grove said:
Easy to wear out a CNC machine if you don't respect the materials you are working with and just keep running large batches through without checking your tooling wear patterns.

Feed rate, insufficient cooling, cutting friction set too high, bad helix and relief angles, and much more can be set wrong causing the huge spread in tolerances with BCL's items.

Back to the Siberian disaster, just look at this.

K71e87v.jpg

vA42ega.jpg


As a machinist I am just freaking out in my head looking at this rifle, I can only imagine what kind of surprises are on the inside that we cannot see.
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Yes, I suppose improper use can ruin things quickly.... hard to beleive they don't know that?

Are you concerned about the step up in dimension going back through the section that connects the rear of the receiver to the aftermarket stock in the second picture, and the different in height between the receiver and the hand guard in the first picture? The step up at the back seems acceptable to me, the hand guard difference in height is hopefully just a poor installation and a bit of play in the connection and is sloppy for sure. I believe that is a pre-production unit but still a bit sloppy.
 
Well that thing is supposedly an adapter for the 1913 rail to the Zhukov stock, so maybe they just botched the indexing by... like a 1/8th of an inch.
 
It's hard to tell but it looks lined up at the bottom. I think it's a picatinny rail type connection to the stock so the parts should be able to line up a bit better, we will see soon enough what the final product looks like.
 
"As a machinist I am just freaking out in my head looking at this rifle, I can only imagine what kind of surprises are on the inside that we cannot see."

as per your posts you are a machinist that works in the industry and here you are trashing other vendors products - are you a shill for the competition?
 
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They are using a 1913 to Zhukov adapter, so you should be able to adjust it up and down a bit, plus you can either buy or print an attachable cheek rest for the Zhukov.

I could see this being a rough hewn last minute prototype, since the FRT entry came out only a short time before TACCOM. Hopefully the production machining will match that if the Bison tacticalish bolt action. Customer service response in Bison issues has been timely and helpful, from what I've see here and elsewhere. Time will tell if this transfers to the Siberian.
 
Rescueman1961 said:
Well WTF what to do about 2 pending orders( Foxbat,FSS Bronco) do I cancel because of this thread?
Honest advise please.
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There is always a small risk buying a new product that has not been proven in the real world..... no easy answer.

Who has the FSS Bronco for sale?
 
the radium king said:
"As a machinist I am just freaking out in my head looking at this rifle, I can only imagine what kind of surprises are on the inside that we cannot see."

as per your posts you are a machinist that works in the industry and here you are trashing other vendors products - are you a shill for the competition?
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What BCL presented for everyone to feast their eyes on at Taccom is a sloppy mess as the video clearly shows and makes a very poor first impression for the future production of the rifle.

If they couldn't even line up the stock and handguard for debuting the rifle what are people supposed to think other than oh look a quick careless slap together?

All of the competing 180 pattern guns have problems so I don't exactly know who I'd be shilling for as I've already replied to you in another thread stating "Five or more variants in 2 years means nothing if they wont function properly.".
Can-down said:
Are you concerned about the step up in dimension going back through the section that connects the rear of the receiver to the aftermarket stock in the second picture, and the different in height between the receiver and the hand guard in the first picture? The step up at the back seems acceptable to me, the hand guard difference in height is hopefully just a poor installation and a bit of play in the connection and is sloppy for sure. I believe that is a pre-production unit but still a bit sloppy.
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The rear looks like a rushed afterthought to add the Zhukov and I'm wondering if other 1913 folding stocks have been tested on the rifle for fit and function, these are important technical questions as the ability to change stocks is moot if they interfere with function or cannot fold over properly.

I have no concerns about the strength of the mounting point it just looks bad not being aligned properly, it would be fun to take a set of calipers to a production model and see what they say.
 
It makes sense BCL would be first to attempt a .308 180. It's less of an investment for them, since they already make the correct size barrels for their bolt action rifles. Hopefully they can get it working ok. If they have difficulty with the piston, maybe they could go the Jard J180 route and impinge the 180 gas system with a gas tube instead? Might make a big bore rifle more balanced, too.
 
Can-down said:
I'll check it out, was it only offered with the 8.5" or 9" barrel option? I'd prefer 12.5"

Took a quick look, the FSS Bronco's have not been listed for presale which makes sense as it's still in the works.
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I have dealt with Carrie at BCL a few times and she is a pleasure to chat with and truly cares about the customer service experience. If you have an issue with a BCL product please go easy on her.

I emailed Carrie yesterday to find out what's happening with the Bronco release and this was her reply - We operate on a distributor model, and the distributor just placed their order recently. The order is set to ship to the distributor the end of this month. When the dealerships will order them and get them is really a guess. I would ask your local/preferred dealership to see if they will be ordering them for their stores.
 
nitroxace said:
I have dealt with Carrie at BCL a few times and she is a pleasure to chat with and truly cares about the customer service experience. If you have an issue with a BCL product please go easy on her.

I emailed Carrie yesterday to find out what's happening with the Bronco release and this was her reply - We operate on a distributor model, and the distributor just placed their order recently. The order is set to ship to the distributor the end of this month. When the dealerships will order them and get them is really a guess. I would ask your local/preferred dealership to see if they will be ordering them for their stores.
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I've PM'd with her in the past on CGN, but don't have her email. I sent an email via their website about 4 or 5 days ago but have hot gotten a reply asking more what was going to be availlable and when, not so much who was going to be placing orders and selling them.

It's hard to place an order when you don't know what's on the menu? Their website has been a work in progress for quite sometime now and does not provide much detail or information as to what is in the works and what is available now.
 
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