MacPapRonin
CGN Regular
- Location
- Toronto, ON
Yup, people have done that!
There's a video somewhere... can't find it right now...
The Templar Thread, 5.56 by Crusader Arms / Spectre LTD
- Thread starter Ustauk
- Start date
Yup, people have done that!
There's a video somewhere... can't find it right now...
Well... I'm waiting for CA to get back to me but I was installing some iron sights on the templar yesterday and noticed the steel plate milled into the left side of the receiver wasn't sitting flush and was interfering with the bolt release.
Turns out (2) screws/washers holding the plate in at the back loosened and fell out at some point. One of the screws near the front appears slightly loose, but I haven't touched anything further.
Not sure yet if it has to go back to CA for a warranty fix, or if this can be fixed at home. I could definitely reach them with an allen key, but there would need to be something done to ensure these do not back out again. I can only assume they fell out into the chamber and were ejected at some point during my last range visit, as looking back at earlier photos these screws were not missing. Didn't appear cause any issues, but the bolt would be riding on a loose plate if left like this so it could cause some damage.
I'll provide an update once I get CA's response and action.
Turns out (2) screws/washers holding the plate in at the back loosened and fell out at some point. One of the screws near the front appears slightly loose, but I haven't touched anything further.
Not sure yet if it has to go back to CA for a warranty fix, or if this can be fixed at home. I could definitely reach them with an allen key, but there would need to be something done to ensure these do not back out again. I can only assume they fell out into the chamber and were ejected at some point during my last range visit, as looking back at earlier photos these screws were not missing. Didn't appear cause any issues, but the bolt would be riding on a loose plate if left like this so it could cause some damage.
I'll provide an update once I get CA's response and action.
MacPapRonin
CGN Regular
- Location
- Toronto, ON
Damn. I guess we need to loctite everything. If you're willing to fix at home, they'll probably XpressPost you the needed parts. Contact them at service@spectreltd.ca and see what they say. [EDIT: sorry, it's clear that you have - hopefully at that address. I hope they get back to you quickly]
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Red loctite and witness mark every fastener.
Yeah. It seems every other fastener on the rifle is super tight and I assume loc-tited, because I was not able to get anything to budge with moderate effort. I saw a post on reddit that someone had a hell of a time trying to get fasteners out because of significant loc-tite, but this is the first I've seen the ones holding this plate in place loosening or falling out in my case.
Once I hear back from CA and what they are going to do for me... I may just make the effort to heat, remove, and re-loctite everything when I get the rifle back
i'd recommend that you also put some thought into the 'why' of it all. that plate doesn't see a lot of force - it just guides the cam pin. so if it is seeing force such that the fasteners are pulling out then it might be more than just a lack of thread sealer. for example, the screws holding the side plate onto my RWA are not thread sealed and not in armstrong tight yet they stay in place.
i think the clue for you is that without the screws the plate isn't sitting flush - this says to me something isn't straight - either plate or receiver. those little screws are not intended to have a lot of tensile (pulling) force on them, so if something isn't square and the fasteners are having to pull it all together then torque and thread seal might not solve the problem.
MacPapRonin
CGN Regular
- Location
- Toronto, ON
The Templar weighs 8.2 lbs with no magazine or rounds loaded or any optics or accessories attached.
BCL Siberian is 6.9 lbs in the same "clean" configuration
Bren 2 is 7.6 lbs
WK-180C Gen 2 is 7.25 lbs
R18 is 7.8 lbs
Tavor X95 is 8.0 lbs
Pre-ban AR-15s ~6.5-7.25 lbs
It's between a half-pound (225g) and one pound (450g) heavier than most carbines in the same caliber. They are noticeably heavier, but not unusably so. AR-180-based firearms are always going to be heavier than your typical DI AR-15 firearm, due to the gas piston. The Templar uses a thicker 3/8" piston instead of the 1/4" piston used in the WK-180C - Crusader Arms adopted a "thicker will be stronger and better" approach to solving the problem of snapping gas pistons, which is not how I would have approached it, but there we are. The balance point of the rifle is right around the front edge of the magazine well when nothing is mounted. When I put on optics and other accessories, the balance point moved 1/2" back from the front edge of the magwell. Full disclosure, this is on a Crusader 9, not a Templar, but if anything, the balance point on a Templar will be even further back.
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The Templars are slightly heavier than the competition, but are built like Main Battle Tanks - beefy and tough as nails. I sold my original Templar to raise urgent funds for something else. I had no problem selling that Templar quickly for pretty much what I had paid for it. I just worked a trade for a replacement Templar. That ought to tell you something - I really do liike the Templar from a bench-shooting perspective. It is reliable and reasonably accurate without the parts breakage problems that plague the WK-180s. My personal jury is still out on the Siberian, but it is increasingly looking like a viable, lightweight solution to the void left by the prohibition of the AR15. The Templar is the heavier answer to the same problem. YMMV, but I recommend at least trying one before you discount the Templar. They are actually a pretty nice rifle all things considered.....
Hmmmm interesting.
My theory was they were just loose to begin with (these are the only fasteners I did not think to check on my first once over, as I assumed they were somewhat of a "permanent" installed piece), have very short threads, and that the vibration/impact/whatever you wanna call it of the bolt riding back and forth is enough to make them work themselves out.
The plate doesn't seem to visually move when I pull back on the charging handle slowly, but when the bolt is locked open, it appears to apply a slight amount of pressure outwards which was causing it to rub on the inside of the bolt release.
Now if the screw falling out during operation into the chamber caused damage that is now making this plate interfere... that is a whole other issue. One that CA has to address.
I've been notified their warranty department is looking into it. Stay tuned.
My theory was they were just loose to begin with (these are the only fasteners I did not think to check on my first once over, as I assumed they were somewhat of a "permanent" installed piece), have very short threads, and that the vibration/impact/whatever you wanna call it of the bolt riding back and forth is enough to make them work themselves out.
The plate doesn't seem to visually move when I pull back on the charging handle slowly, but when the bolt is locked open, it appears to apply a slight amount of pressure outwards which was causing it to rub on the inside of the bolt release.
Now if the screw falling out during operation into the chamber caused damage that is now making this plate interfere... that is a whole other issue. One that CA has to address.
I've been notified their warranty department is looking into it. Stay tuned.
jamessmart24
New member
- Location
- North of 7 Ontario
I believe they are offering the "solo" because I think they are having a really hard time getting enough f5 folding stocks. I bought the model with the buffer tube stock as the folding stock sold out just before I purchased. I contacted F5 MFG and spoke to the head hancho directly. He told me he could sell me that stock for $350 USD plus the adapter for the templar.... but he doesnt even have enough stocks to supply Crusader so I would have to wait a couple months. He told me to contact Crusader to see if they would sell me some he just sent up there. Crusader Arms told me it would be about 600$ CAD shipped for a stock separately, but they would not sell me one as they cant fulfill their orders... so Im sticking with the buffer tube stock lol..
The YouTube Channel the Box Outdoor Recreation was impressed with the Templar after several hundred rounds of regular usage. He's in the States, and sites the SCAR and SIG MCX as alternatives, since he was in the States, but liked how many parts were AR-15 interchangeable, and had modded his rifle accordingly.
The Box Outdoor Recreation said:
As I have said before, there is a lot to like about the Templar, particularly its ruggedness and durability due to being overbuilt like a Main Battle Tank. I am on my second rifle having had to sell the first in a moment of financial weakness. I am enjoying the processs of modding my "new" Templar and look forward to zeroing it later this week. I am on the hunt for a rare earth magnet that I can embed into the Buttstock so that it will close securely against the steel Receiver Insert when folded....
I just made a purchase before reading your post. Currently awaiting the rifle so thought i should email them regarding the concern about the stocks.
Their reply was that it must have been an old post because they had a shortage back in January but are no longer having any issues
Nice video, some like, some not to like on the rifle, and the Templar did not appreciate second desert dust bath.
And Crusader, for the love of the Maker, would you listen to everyone, now including Admin Results, and replace that Chaos-damned Phillips head in the charging handle track? You've got to be able to at least use a Robertson screw if you can't use a hex; the Phillips is so out of place!
MacPapRonin
CGN Regular
- Location
- Toronto, ON
I was wondering what was going on when this reviewer (sootch00) had already reviewed the "Crusader Arms Templar" 6 months ago ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnVYCxxV-9M ), it seems from the review that the "Cru Arms Temp 556" is what Crusader Arms had to rename the rifle (and the operating company) for the American market due to existing companies and product names in the US.
Glad that it's getting reviewed. It's really only a niche gun in the US market - there are so many cheaper, and/or better-made rifles in the US that fire 5.56mm, and even if you specifically wanted the AR-180 platform for whatever reason, the Brownells BRN-180 upper is ~$900 USD, and a lot more customizable options for the lower. As someone pointed out in a Reddit thread (and Administrative Results it seems as well) , in the States, the CruArms Temp is like a "hipster gun" for people who want something LIKE an ACR/SCAR/MCX but don't want to pay SCAR prices. I like my Crusader 9, don't get me wrong, but it's one of a dozen or so 5.56mm SA option we have, practically speaking, in Canada. When you have a lot more to choose from, it's harder to stand out.
I enjoy this rifle; I've had a lot of fun shooting it, but I'm under no illusions that it is of the same quality or will ultimately likely have the same longevity as a Tavor X95, Bren 2 or APC 556. It's made for a certain price point and can exist in the confined ecosystem of the Canadian rifle market for very specific reasons. As someone who likes variety and diversity, I don't mind that it isn't a AR15-derived system, and I like the look of it.
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It also makes me wonder if there is a build quality difference between the USA and Canada manufacturing facilities. Unfortunately anything made up here seems to be rife with QC issues across a range of manufacturers.
Is nostalgia for the ACR enough to sell this gun well in the USA? Time will tell I suppose.
Back to my missing screws, it took about a week for Spectre to get back to me. I accepted just being sent new screws to install myself, and adding loc-tite. Their initial response was that these screws should have loc-tite from the factory, and I confirmed there was none when I removed the remaining 2. They were tight, but definitely no loc-tite. We'll see how it goes once I receive them.
