Great ballistic test from Norma
- Thread starter DGY
- Start date
Yet they are so representative at the same time!We sure do but you still never showed me a bullet that sucks on big game but looks great in gel and demonstrate poor understanding of it as a medium.
I'm not asking for agreement so much as acknowleding that you don't know what you don't know either lol
180 grain (and lighter) Power Points have been getting it done since they came out. Surely there must be ONE bullet you can show me in gel that does as good or better that sucks on animals, with their armored meat and adamantium bones.
Whats out there looking great that doesn't measure up to the humble, slow 170gr Core Lokt?
You say the Scirocco did great in "jello" with such derision. Did it? What did it do in gel? You have no idea.
Or its just what happens when you shoot big game with a bullet that even the manufacturers were saying they didn't recommend for bigger than deer lol.
John Barsness in 2003 saying that Swif themselves were advising people not to use it on bigger than deer. 20 years ago, straight from the makers themselves. Wow, it must have done sooo good in gel. If you have no idea, don't let that stop you from assuming so lol. How did they test it at all? Can't say? Meh, lets just assume.
I had 5 ELD-X bullets practically bounce off a moose last week. They wouldn't even make it past the ribs. Factory precision hunter ammo in 7PRC. These sort of failures do happen, though this was the first time I've seen it with my own eyes. Not doing that again. I'll be working up a load with Barnes TTSX for next time.
I did get him...but it was a bit of a sh1tshow. One of the five was a neck shot that dropped him (but didn't kill him) otherwise he would've been long gone.
It was all good in the end, and got some good stories out of it. But I won't be hunting moose again with ELD-X, that's for sure.
3 of them. 2 were just the base of the jackets left and 1 was shrapnel. The cores completely separated. I'm sure the other 2 were there in the neck and head but didn't go digging for them.
Not meaning this to you at all, Jon. After all you used a product for exactly its adverised purpose but this is a great example.
If bullets that perform poorly on game do great in gel, why are bullets like the Remington Core-Lokt, Federal's cup and core offerings etc just beating the brakes off the ELD-X here?
They're going way farther, they're holding together and not having core/jacket separtion, not coming to pieces, etc.
And someone's telling me that gel doesn't give you useful info on what is going to do better on big game lol.
If bullets that perform poorly on game do great in gel, why are bullets like the Remington Core-Lokt, Federal's cup and core offerings etc just beating the brakes off the ELD-X here?
They're going way farther, they're holding together and not having core/jacket separtion, not coming to pieces, etc.
And someone's telling me that gel doesn't give you useful info on what is going to do better on big game lol.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I witnessed remarkably little rifle, bullet, and load drama guiding- as in nearly none except bad, overly hot American handloads. Those rear their head as sticky bolts more often than you’d think, that’s user error however not the gun’s fault.
Have said it before, some didn’t do exactly what I wanted them to, but none utterly failed when properly placed. Had a couple scopes get knocked off zero, one cost a goat one year, same guy remedied that the next, but in contrast we had dozens go smoothly. I don’t doubt what Jon87’s saying, I just have questions like how close was it and what were the shot angles. I’ve done a lot of moose hunting with a lot of boring chamberings, never seen any bullets all but bounce off.
Have seen guns and bullets I dislike kill grizzlies, black bears, wolves, moose, goats, and others. Some did it slower than I’d have liked, but they still killed them. I complain consistently about the one trend I did notice, the stuff hitting animals around 2000fps and below was remarkably unimpressive and slow to act on average- none failed however. Had .300 Ultras show up routinely with incredibly fast impacts including Dogleg’s average range grizz, none of them failed either.
I heard these stories lots guiding from clients, but observed remarkably little of them in the bush in BC. I think it’s like a bad restaurant review, everyone hears about food poisoning nobody hears about a bland and mediocre dining experience that makes up the 99%.
Have said it before, some didn’t do exactly what I wanted them to, but none utterly failed when properly placed. Had a couple scopes get knocked off zero, one cost a goat one year, same guy remedied that the next, but in contrast we had dozens go smoothly. I don’t doubt what Jon87’s saying, I just have questions like how close was it and what were the shot angles. I’ve done a lot of moose hunting with a lot of boring chamberings, never seen any bullets all but bounce off.
Have seen guns and bullets I dislike kill grizzlies, black bears, wolves, moose, goats, and others. Some did it slower than I’d have liked, but they still killed them. I complain consistently about the one trend I did notice, the stuff hitting animals around 2000fps and below was remarkably unimpressive and slow to act on average- none failed however. Had .300 Ultras show up routinely with incredibly fast impacts including Dogleg’s average range grizz, none of them failed either.
I heard these stories lots guiding from clients, but observed remarkably little of them in the bush in BC. I think it’s like a bad restaurant review, everyone hears about food poisoning nobody hears about a bland and mediocre dining experience that makes up the 99%.
Shot 1 was 150 yards, quartering toward me. Ended up high along the spine, found what was left of the bullet ahead of the hind quarter. The shot was high, but very little penetration.
Shot 2 was a followup at 150 yards, broadside running. Ended up 3" above the spine in the hump. No exit
Shot 3 was 225 yards, broadside behind the front shoulder. This is the one that didn't make it past ribs. There were no deflections or trees in the way or anything like that.
Shot 4 was a followup at 225 yard, in the neck
Shot 5 was a headshot at around 10 yards as he was still alive
I've never seen anything quite like that. The guide was similarly surprised. I've read that ELD-X can fall apart at close range, but I've had good results with the bullet in 6.5CM at ~2600fps at the muzzle so didn't think too much of it. The only thing I can think is that in 7PRC at nearly 3000fps muzzle it's too fast? Though at 225 yards it should be only a little over 2600 fps.
Spoke to a guy in the bullet isle at Canadian Tire a couple of weeks ago. He asked me about Speer 7MM 175gr Grand Slams in the 7mm Rem Mag. I told him I had no experience with them. He was hopelessly searching for partitions in the same weight with no success. He pointed to the ELD-X’s and told me about the rodeo he had had with them on deer last fall. He said never again.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The slow ones. .45-70s, .450 Marlins and the like, they were my least favourite to see come out of a gun case, and Americans still view them as a big gun. If we’re being frank, they’re substantially behind a .270 for on game average effect. Yes they work, I can even accept the logic in a guide’s hands for breaking bone in a straight line, but a .338, .35 Whelen, or .375 H&H does that just as well with far better terminal effect for equivalent recoil.
I like the handy guns they’re chambered in, just not the cartridges.
